College Parent Central Podcast

#159 - Unpacking the Admission Process for First Generation Families with Sacha Thieme

• College Parent Central • Season 7 • Episode 159

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The college admission process can be daunting for everyone, but maybe a little more overwhelming for first generation students and their families. In this episode, we talk with someone who knows the ins and outs of admission as an admission director, but who was also a first generation student. Elizabeth and Vicki are joined by Sacha Thieme, Associate Vice Chancellor of Enrollment and Executive Director of Admissions at Indiana University Bloomington, who breaks down a practical division of labor for the college admissions process: students keep the agency, voice, and decisions, while parents provide boundaries, honest expectations, and gentle accountability. For first-generation families, we cover what to ask on tours and what challenges can show up after arrival. Our conversation with Sacha Thieme will help and reassure all families that they can weather the college admission process.

Thank you for listening!

Welcome And What Parents Need

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to the College Parent Central Podcast. Whether your child is just beginning the college admission process or is already in college, this podcast is for you. You'll find food for thought and information about college and about navigating that delicate balance of guidance, involvement, and knowing when to get out of the way. Join your hosts as they share support and a celebration of the amazing experience of having a child in college.

SPEAKER_02

Welcome to College Parents Central. I'm Elizabeth Hamblett. I am a college learning disability specialist and author of Seven Steps to Success: A Pathway for Students with Disabilities. And my co-host Vicki Nelson is here today.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, and we're excited to be here and to have a guest. But my name is Vicki Nelson, and I am a professor of communication at a small liberal arts college. And I I think more importantly, I have the credential of having three daughters who have gone to college, uh, who have come out the other side. So I I always come to this topic of college parenting both as a parent who's lived through it and someone who works with students every day and sometimes their parents as well. But we have a guest, and I'm gonna let Elizabeth introduce her.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, and I am delighted to have our guest today. So I was lucky enough to get introduced to Sasha Teamy several years ago by our other previous guest, Rick Clark, um, when I was revising my uh my book and asked him for some folks in the admissions uh area, and he suggested Sasha, and it has been a wonderful connection for me. Sasha has been working in um admissions for a long time. She'll tell you a little bit more about that. Um, she volunteers her time every winter with me to do a summit on college transition for students with disabilities. And so I want to talk to her a little bit about something that that topic today, but also, you know, glean much more information from her experiences as an admissions professional. So, Sasha, tell us a little bit about your background, how long you've been working in this area, what brought you to it?

SPEAKER_03

Well, thank you, Elizabeth and Vicki, for this opportunity to join you. And thank you for the work that you do to spread good information for our families that are approaching this process. Uh, so my name is Sasha Temey. I do get to serve as the Associate Vice Chancellor of Enrollment and Executive Director of Admissions for My Alma Mater, Indiana University Bloomington. I have been working in enrollment now for more than two decades, uh, but I certainly did not approach college with any idea that this would be the outcome. Um I was a uh first generation student who didn't have a lot of insight about the college process. And I think I've now spent my career trying to make the process and experience better for uh for other students uh and families, and that's been a really worthwhile

Meet Sasha And Her First Gen Path

SPEAKER_03

journey. I also have the chance now to work with uh our Office of Scholarships and Office of Orientation and Enrollment Programs. So really thinking about that student's full life journey from the time they think about college through their first days uh on campus. So it's been really exciting.

SPEAKER_02

Well, certainly it's an exciting field for families and also one that can bring about a lot of anxiety. Um so if you have parents that that are listening who are nervous about sending their student to college, what would you want them to know? And and you can answer, you know, certainly as your own uh through your own experience as a first-generation student, as an experienced admissions professional, you know, both.

SPEAKER_03

Well, if parents are anxious about sending their student off to college, I get it. Both as that first-time first-generation student and also as a parent of a college student. It's terrifying to realize you have entered a stage of this experience where you not only can't fix things for your student, but in most

Managing Fear While Kids Grow

SPEAKER_03

cases, we really shouldn't attempt to try. We need them to step into these spaces like college and enter the season of growth for their own learning. And we recognize that it's going to be deeply profound and beautifully ordinary. I mean, these are uh opportunities where they will learn to navigate the world and increase their confidence, their curiosity, and their independence. Um, and with college, many of the things that they will do on their own, managing their schedule, advocating for themselves, solving problems, finding their people, those are really the very things that we need for a foundation for a lifetime, coupled with the practical learning for a robust and fulfilling career that they will lead to. From an admissions perspective, I've had the opportunity to see thousands of students arrive, unsure, excited, overwhelmed, all of the above. And then I've watched them discover their strengths they didn't know they had, be introduced to new learning they didn't know that would spark their interest and take pride in their own progress. And it, well, it doesn't happen all at once. Uh, it's definitely remarkable to witness. Um, so for parents, I also want them to know that they're not handing their student off to the unknown, that they are partnering with a community of us of professionals who have made this our life's work to help lift and launch students into their experience. And we want their students to succeed, to feel supported, and to grow into these best versions of themselves. So their student won't be doing it alone, and neither will parents. We hope that is what they feel.

SPEAKER_01

That makes the path sound so exciting for students as they enter in. And I hope parents are equally excited for their student and wonderful things happen. And you you mentioned that partnership uh with the college, and and and that's certainly there. But before all of that can happen, students have to get in. And parents are also very anxious very often about that. And more and more, if it feels as though more and more these days, that that admissions process is a partnership between parents and students. Um, but it's uh it's sort of a funny partnership. Um, and I'm wondering if you have thoughts about the division of labor in that. I mean, sometimes we say to parents, you know, back off. Should they just step back and let it go? Should they lead the charge? How how sh what's the best way for that partnership to work during the admissions process?

SPEAKER_03

Vicky, I really appreciate

The Right Parent Student Division

SPEAKER_03

that question. And and I the reality I think is that there are going to be moments where any of those approaches are going to be important. Um, we as humans make our best and informed, confident decisions when we are the leaders in the process, when we retain the agency in our own knowledge gathering, in our own discovery, in our self-awareness. So the best division of labor is when the student owns their own voice and their decisions. But as parents, as supporters, as advocates, we can bring in awareness of boundaries. I talk a lot about the real talk of expectations. Those are what financial support is real and available for this process? What type of investment can we make as a family in this process? How far away should you go in this process and what's realistic? Um, and so we as parents can provide that information to offer students this uh space of a freedom of thought because they already know where the expectations are. Uh, and then as family members, we provide gentle accountability and we can talk about that a little bit further. We do that through their life about what is appropriate and not. Um, but if we can uh set up a process early in this experience where and we we can talk about setting schedules for when we talk about college, when we talk about those boundaries, when we introduce that process. All of those details will be unique to our student, but we can set up some some clear discussions around those. Um, that is going to be helpful. Uh, a fully hands-off approach usually leaves students feeling really overwhelmed and a little lost. Um, but a shared agency, a balance can can provide a really healthy uh approach to this process where the student is always at the lead.

SPEAKER_02

So we're recording this in, I think it's the middle of June. Um summer is coming, school is out or letting out, and there may be families, you know, thinking about when they might visit. And do you have a recommendation? Is there sort of um a better time to be there? Obviously, if they're coming in the summer, a lot of students will be gone. And so, you know, are there advantages to that in a way? You know, if you if there could be a prime time to visit, when would it be?

SPEAKER_03

Well, you make a great point, Lizbeth. We do we do understand that families um you need to schedule some of these things when you can. And so sometimes summer is uh a time of a little more exploration. I think, especially if you're earlier in the process where you're just maybe

When To Visit And What To Book

SPEAKER_03

trying to get a vibe for a place, or or you maybe you're just starting the college search and you just need some of those formal visits to kind of get into a rhythm, then summer is a great opportunity. Um, but we do recommend that if you can come while school is in session for the formal academic year as you get to see real life college students in their habitat, walking around and engaging in the experience. Um but I will say for some families and students, maybe the quieter part of summer is a good way to ease into it. So again, know your student, know your reality, know your schedule. Um, I also offer a reminder that if you feel like, wow, October and April would be awesome to visit because that's when our fall and spring breaks are. That is exactly what every family in this country is thinking about, right? And so those times are really, really busy. So we always tell families to book your visit before you book your travel and make sure that that can work because those are really high uh volume times. I would also say there's other ways to visit. Uh one thing that came out of the pandemic is that we realized we could leverage technology in much better and effective ways. And so there are virtual visits and virtual tours, and um you can even get student panels or access to the information in different ways. And so we encourage families to take advantage of those because travel may or may not be an opportunity multiple times. It may be that you need to do all of the research and then visit when a student's been offered admission. There are all kinds of different ways to approach it, but there are different resources now too.

SPEAKER_02

And to your point about things being busy, um, are there limits, you know, for your your guided tours? You know, do people kind of need to think ahead of time? You know?

SPEAKER_03

That's exactly right. We uh we do usually have limited spaces, and while we continue to try and increase capacity, uh there's just the reality that we only have so many opportunities. But there are different, I mentioned breaks are usually busier, Mondays and Fridays are usually busier if you can come middle of the week. And I know that's not always easy, but those there might be a little bit more um more opportunity. I also encourage families when you're thinking about your student interests to think about the non-school related experiences that are going to be important for your student. Um, you know, we have families who intentionally come in February because they want to see what winter is like. Um, maybe it is uh your student maybe doesn't want to or does want to compete in athletics, but if they don't, maybe they want it to be part of their experience. So come for an athletic event, um, come for a theater production, come for you know, a festival that's in that town because this is the place that you will live uh for four years, right? So um, so there are also different ways or different things to think about when planning your visit that may be connected to that uh information session and tour, but also will can be part of the student's full experience.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you. So all of those things are so important as as families are thinking about when to do the visit and a little bit about how the visit might happen. Um I'm wondering about I mean, as we're talking to you, we really wanted to touch on two things today, and that one is the poll admissions process, and the second is to talk a little bit about first generation students. So I I I sort of have a double question. I tend to throw questions, multiple things in one question. Um, but it's it generally, how should a family prepare for a visit? And then more specifically, are there are there special things or other things or additional things that perhaps a first generation family might want to think about as they get ready for a visit?

SPEAKER_03

So, you know, as a first, so as a parent, I will say that I can now appreciate my mom in so many ways.

Planning A Strong Campus Visit

SPEAKER_03

But one is absolutely the recognition of how terrified she was about me leaving. And at the same time, knowing that while she didn't know about college, she had knew enough to feel that this college thing was going to offer something greater than my current situation could afford. And so I just I admire and appreciate her for that conviction in the face of fear. Now, did I appreciate that in my 17-year-old mind? I certainly did not, but I can I can look back and reflect on all of that. Um, but I think for first generation parents, as you approach the college visit or just college in general, if you if you don't personally have that direct experience of college, there are there are things that you know that you bring to this. You know your family situation, you know the student that you are raising, right? You know their interest and you know something about their um how they approach decisions or how they approach schoolwork or maybe their academic interests or things like that. Um, so you come with a lot of knowledge that other parents do not have about your student. And so that I want them to have confidence in that. Um so I talked earlier, and it might sound like a broken record, but this real talk before approaching a visit, before starting a college list, really think about um what it means to go away, if that is a good option for your student, what it uh what the cost reality is, and and not we talk about not the sticker price because there's there's aid and there's uh scholarships and other ways that students can invest in this experience, but but with that in mind, what is the reality? Um and then be a partner in the learning process. So um there are resources now, way more resources than we had decades ago, um, to resources such as um, you know, college parent central, um, that families can can understand how to build a visit, how what questions maybe to ask, how to support their student in the visit experience, um, how to set up the type of visit day that would be helpful for their student. Parents can learn all of those things alongside their student. We still encourage the student to take the action because again, that agency will make for better decisions, but they can understand the college process through their resources, learn the basics of financial aid, support their student emotionally. Those are all things that they can they can do.

SPEAKER_01

I really like that you reminded us as parents that while our uh 17-year-olds may not appreciate us, as they get older, they understand that perhaps uh you know we have something to to contribute somewhere along the line. Um so uh so as you mentioned questions, the thinking about the questions. And I'm I'm curious, are there uh are there uh specific questions or kinds of questions that first generation families might want to ask as they're visiting? Is there additional information they might want to know? Maybe not, but I'm curious.

SPEAKER_03

I think so. And I also I don't think they would be maybe dissimilar from what a a family who had gone through the experience. Um I am regularly reminded, and I remind uh the people I work with that the college experience that I had the privilege to enjoy um is not entirely the college experience today, right? There is so we are all starting with a little bit of um a knowledge gap. But there are things that um again, knowing your student, how does advising work? What does a credit hour mean? What are the deadlines that matter? Because we work with deadlines in our daily life. We know how to negotiate those and we know that they have consequences and meaning. And um, what does um what does study abroad offer? What do internships mean? What do those experience? All of those are questions that a family member can come to and they can ask those questions. And we get those from student from families who have experienced college themselves and who have not. Um, and all of those are bits of information that you can gather to complement that with what you know about your student. Um when are classes offered? I know my student loves mornings, doesn't love mornings. How do they schedule those? Um, how I know my student is can committed to their program of interest, or I know my student is in a discovery stage. How will this university support either of those options? Um, those are those are some basics. And then financial aid, that is a different process as well. I that was one my mother leaned into hard because it was not going to be easy for this um college experience to happen. But she learned so much that she then became a resource for my other family members because she knew that that was a knowledge gap that needed to be filled.

SPEAKER_01

You know, one of the things I'm hearing as you talk about that, that I hope if there are first generation uh parents listening to this that that they can hear and take away is that their experience is not as different as they may think it is from other parents who have attended college uh but long enough ago that they really have to relearn a lot of things as well. So so everybody's in that that learning stage. Um because yeah, when most when most of us went to college, it was an entirely different animal than it is now.

SPEAKER_02

And I was gonna say, and it's a good reminder for those of us who did go some time ago, um, that we should not assume that it is similar. So yeah. Um so uh because of what I do, as I mentioned earlier, Sasha helped me with uh I think books two and three, and with this event that I host every year. And in part, you know, what I ask her and and her colleagues about are all of this advice that students with disabilities tend to get about um their application. So, you know, that goes from one extreme where they should never tell a college that they have a disability, um, to the other extreme of absolutely tell them, you know, because of all these assumptions that folks um make. And sometimes families even hear from others that they shouldn't let their student even have any accommodations starting in high school because they fear that um that will be on the transcript and that will

Disability Disclosure And Applications

SPEAKER_02

somehow be a mark against a student. So I've asked you a lot of things, but you know, can you sort of speak to this advice about whether students should or shouldn't um, you know, disclose in some way and you know what you want students to know about this process if they have a disability.

SPEAKER_03

I appreciate that. Elizabeth, we've talked about how this can can expand to other lived experiences that you decide whether to or not to share. And we ultimately want students to exercise their agency in this experience and recognize that as individuals, we have lived experiences and stories and obstacles and and special um things that we need to negotiate and how or if we decide to disclose them is entirely up to us. Um, so if a student um decides to share that information, that's in that's up to them. And as an institution, one thing I always make clear is that we are the the learning need itself or the the learning um disability itself is not something that we can consider one way or the other legally. We're not allowed to hold a student, um uh review a student differently. But there are other pieces from that statement that that are insightful. Uh overcoming adversity, or how a student negotiated this a system, or how it's informed their long-term goals, or how it's taught them to be uh seek help and support in an academic setting. Those are all components that are things that provide us with evidence of a student's readiness to be successful in this college environment. So um it may not be it never is the maybe that one specific detail that they're most concerned about. It is the overall lived experience that they are bringing to the college, their college setting.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you. Um, all students when they when they get to college, all never say all, but most students, most students when they get to college, um there's a there's a transition. There are challenges that they need to overcome. Sometimes it's academic, sometimes it's social, there are all kinds of things. That's part of of how college students grow. Um and are I I'm thinking again about first generation students. Um I like that you talked about the sort of leveling the play, the playing field um in terms of admissions to remind everybody that you know everybody needs to relearn a little bit about uh the admissions process. Um but what about once once the first generation students arrive on campus? Are there specific uh challenges that

First Gen Challenges After Arrival

SPEAKER_01

they face that other students might not that that it would be helpful um for them to anticipate?

SPEAKER_03

Yes, I I think as a first generation student, um we often face challenges that aren't immediately visible. So, you know, while we're negotiating this college experience without family insight, maybe to go on um about you know things that inform everyday processes. I mentioned advising, how advising works, financial aid, how I pick classes. They could those those each of those details can feel maybe a little bit more complicated than necessary. But there's also this unique emotional pressure of the desire to make our families proud, because we know that this is a big step and there's an investment in this process to not make mistakes and to figure it out on our own. I mean, when I started college, I remember not wanting anyone to know that I didn't know what was going on. I really, you know, I and I think looking back, I probably lost unnecessary time because I didn't seek out the resources because I thought I had to do it on my own. Other people knew maybe I was the only one. And what I didn't know was that I wasn't the only one. Not even because I was first generation, but because every college student has never done this before. So we are all just floundering. We all want to meet our people, we all want to be successful. Um, a more effective approach would have been to learn how the institution works by asking people who knew how the institution worked. So using those advisors, using the academic success resources, using the financial aid experts, it wouldn't have been, and it's not a sign of struggle. It's a sign of learning to navigate a really complex system and then build the confidence through that. I think one thing I would want every first generation student to know is that these challenges, they're not about capability, they're about knowledge and experience. And both knowledge and experience can be obtained. And so they can have the successful outcome that college can offer because they can learn and they can continue to gather the information that will help them be successful. And then some things I would say resources I don't believe existed when I came through decades ago. And that is about more readily organized communities and resources to support students. And so first generation programs, mentor programs, peer networks create spaces where students don't have to explain their story before being understood. Those spaces and experiences and networks can help them see their background and their approach to college as a source of strength, a source of resilience, uh, an important perspective. Um so I think that there are there are certainly unique experiences that exist, um, but there is knowledge to be obtained to meet them.

SPEAKER_01

You know, I think one of the uh one of the I've been teaching a long time and one of the uh biggest changes I've seen is is this this embracing of first generation students. That you know, we didn't talk about first generation students before. We didn't even think about them. They they there may or may not have been as many of them, but they came under everybody's radar. And that there are uh so many supports now for all students, but specifically that that pride that students have now of being first generation. And you mentioned the you know the pride of that the families have and and and the the pressure sometimes that that causes on students um to feel that they have to live up to this. Well uh are there ways that parents uh can really make sure that that those feelings that they have, the pride that they have feels like support rather than pressure. I mean it it feels as though there's a fine line somewhere in there when when when trying to be supportive starts to feel uh a little pressury.

SPEAKER_03

I think that I think that's really fair. And I think we it might be one of those things that might be more universal as parents than whether or not we had college experience, right? We um I I think it's really natural for us as parents to reflect on our own experiences and either seek to help our students choose a path that we perceive as better, or ensure that our student experience students' experiences are just as positive. And I think that reflects a goal of most aspects of parenting. Um in that desire, we can also be a little overwhelming to our students. And I do agree. I understand that. Not me. Um people would often uh when my my own student was going through it, they would often ask, you know, what does the college search look like? As if I was going to have like a model experience for my student. And what I would often say is it looks just like my kid. It looks um, it's not overly complicated. It is uh there are some foundational core components of it that we are building around. Uh, but it's gonna be their process. And I think that is an important, uh, important reminder for us as families is that it is the students' experience. We will never be sitting in that seat, nor should we ever try to step in those classrooms, right? Just in case any parent was thinking about that. Um we will not be in those seats for our students. They need to, they need to be there and and have the confidence that they've made the choices to be there.

SPEAKER_02

I think that framing is so interesting. This the search looks like my kid. Like that is that's really something to sit with. Um wow. Um, gosh, there's so much. So you spoke earlier about the fact that there are lots of different ways to visit, you know, and learn about um a college. So um is there anything specific that you think for um first generation parents? Again, you know, understanding things are different, like from from when even those of us who went to college experienced it, but ways for them to um learn about the college uh beyond the formal website? Are there and are there things they should avoid? I mean, online groups I think can be useful, um, but should come with a warning label, maybe.

SPEAKER_03

Uh absolutely. Uh take everything we see online with a good dose of um skepticism and uh um an awareness.

Learning Beyond The Official Website

SPEAKER_03

I I would say that there's uh this some of this can be universal as well. Um one of the things that I found with when I went through this search as a parent is that having one formal visit, regardless of whether my student was interested in that uh school, really kicked things off. It really made things start to feel real. It really set some new expectations for benchmarking of what we were looking for as uh, you know, they set up other visits. Um I as a parent also started to see the wheels turning a little differently and the thinking that was happening. And I saw that thinking and learning progress as we had additional visits, but it was that first one that really put it into action. Uh, all of the encouragement, let's call it, that I provided to you know, look at websites or attend virtual programs, um, those were helpful, but it really was that being on a campus uh the first time that set things into motion. So I think as you, you know, as families approach this process to get the most out of the visits, because they are a financial investment, they are a time investment, they are a commitment, is to prepare with as clear of a plan as you can, um gathering, you know, helping your student understand what is important to them, what things are we looking for? Um, I have questions, you have questions, we can ask them in the same places, we can ask them in different places, um, but I we're all going to be gathering information, share those expectations that I mentioned earlier about, let's say, finance distance and other things, um, and maybe a simple structure that you can approach. I have seen students and families have highly sophisticated spreadsheets, and I have seen students and families uh just gonna go with some gut and um start to narrow things down as they go. So I don't know that there's a one right way. Um but I'll come back to again that this is their campus visit, this is their campus tour. If you have been a fan of the college or university, or maybe you even attended there, um that's not the place on the tour to bring up those stories of experiences. Um uh there are other spaces where you can relive your experience or um celebrate your fan uh fan status. Um, but let the student uh have that their their experience and make the day about their experience.

SPEAKER_01

You know, I remember the first college visit with my oldest daughter, because my other two daughters by the time it was their first college visit, they had been on a whole lot of college visits with their sisters. Um, but the same thing happened. It was the first one, and at some point I remember she turned to me and she said, It just dawned on me, this is going to be fun. And it was this revelation that it wasn't just getting into another classroom, but we had been to the gym and we'd heard about the concerts and we'd seen the dorms and we'd see and the activities, and it it it totally flipped her recognition. So um, and one of the things uh that that I sometimes encourage um students that I know uh is to make their first couple of visits somewhere they know they don't want to go. So there's no interesting no pressure on that. And then by the time they get to the schools where they real that really matter, they've got some experience in how how a how a thing works.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so yeah, I love that. I can't just I love that um because they're gonna be living in this community where they're time here, and so understanding what that community offers, I think is so important. Um, and I did find the experience most effective when my student heard things for themselves.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, and there were many moments where I bit my tongue to remind, uh, maybe provide a reminder that I might have shared that same information earlier. Um, I don't know a little bit about this process, uh, but I think that's parenting. And um, in this regard, that process isn't going to be different than many of our daily experiences, but um it it it is that power of hearing it and seeing it and discerning it for themselves.

SPEAKER_01

It it's real. And if if they can do it in person, I mean sometimes it has to be virtual, but just that experience. I uh I went on between the three girls so many college tours, and I wanted to go back to school. Can I stay? Can I can I do this? Um, you know, I was going to ask you uh uh to sort of boil things down to three things you would tell students to prepare for, but I think you you really just did that in in talking about you know having the plan and and those things um because we could go on all day. Um I wanted to jump to another question, and uh you've mentioned the real talk and that that includes um financial uh uh conversations, which uh can can uh shape the parameters for the search sometimes. So I'm curious what when you think in the process that financial conversation sh might best happen and and kind of what it looks like.

SPEAKER_03

I it is not always an easy conversation to have. Every family approaches finances differently. Some are very open with their students, uh, some do not want to maybe put pressure

The Money Talk And Setting Limits

SPEAKER_03

on their students to understand that financial um situation. Um I knew coming into this process when I was a student that those resources were going to be incredibly limited. And so that was important because it informed it informed my approach. Um, I knew I wanted to go away, but I also knew that I had to be mindful about um maybe make some different decisions to make that possible. Uh, when it came to my own student search, both of my students know exactly how much is available, and uh and they've known that from very early on uh so that they could inform their decision. So it's gonna look a little different for every family, but I when it what breaks my heart is when that happens in the spring of the senior year. Um, and that uh I totally understand why we want to encourage our students to to dream big and think broadly, and and and in reality, we don't always have the full picture of what that financial picture is gonna look like until the spring. So I I I completely appreciate that that makes it more complicated. Um, but having some understanding before you enter this process, and I'm gonna say before you enter this process, because for some families that is gonna be a student who's ready to go the their junior year, and for other families, it's gonna be the student's gonna kind of step into it their senior year. So it's gonna it's gonna be very different. But whenever you uh that process begins for your student, I think that is the time to set have that real talk. And it I don't um as parents, we're setting boundaries for our students all the time. That is to help them operate with confidence within those that uh that sphere. And I think this is one of those where um being frank and with support and encouragement for their big dreams, um, that are those big dreams can provide important motivation and perseverance uh when things get uh tricky. Um, but providing those real expectations can help us build confidence too.

SPEAKER_01

And help build the partnership.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Okay. I we I know we are almost out of time. I think we each get one more question, Elizabeth. You want one, and then I have one.

SPEAKER_02

I uh because I I actually really do want to get this question in. Um do you have advice for parents when they think the school that their student is choosing, or maybe even in the search, the ones that they're focusing on are not good choices for them? You know, let's put aside the financial for a moment because we've we've discussed that, but on other levels, maybe they think the level, the size of it is not quite right, or the culture of the campus maybe isn't a good fit. So, do you have any advice for parents about how to talk to their student, if if at all?

SPEAKER_03

This is hard. Um we have the privilege of having negotiated our own uncertainty. Uh, and our

When You Disagree With Their Choice

SPEAKER_03

and our student also, our students need that space, and they need to do that through their own lived experience. That is how we learn as individuals, and that is how we make better decisions for the future. Um so it it is it is hard. I think if if as a family we feel confident, we have had the real talk, we have set those expectations, we have can draw lines and connectors to where we, the things we know about our student and where they are, you know, how they've mapped those. Then I think it's our students' decision. Um and I just observed a family friend go through this. The decision is not anything that I think any of us expected, but I have never seen that student more fired up and excited. And um, and if if my uh friends had not given their student the clear expectations about what was real and what was possible, but also the full support of discovery, then I it might have turned out differently if they had brought their own. I'll say I'll buy a baggage. We bring our baggage experience, right? Um, all the things we wish we had known. That's part of parenting too. But if they had um done that in such a way that was made it all about them and not about their student, then it would have been a different outcome. Now, a year from now, could that situation look different for the student? It could. Are there other pathways the student can take to stay on a productive and positive journey? Absolutely. And will that lived experience provide them with important knowledge about their own interests, desires, and needs? 100%. Um, so I think this also reflects a goal that most of us have uh for parenting is to help our students choose a path that will um ultimately empower them to live a successful and fulfilling life. And this is one of those, and it won't be the choices that we make.

SPEAKER_01

You know, I almost want to leave it there. But well my question that I promise is a little easier. Um, and that is we just always sort of at the end like to ask are there any resources that you would recommend for parents? Books, podcasts, websites, um, anything that you would say to parents, you know, here's here's something that can help.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

That is a distinct difference uh in the last few decades. And I would say in the last five years that have uh the resources have dramatically expanded. But I think Elizabeth, to your earlier point, that we need to be judicious in where we decide to um, how we decide to fuel our knowledge gathering. Um, so I think resources, uh, there are there are a lot of digital resources like College Parent Central. Uh you referenced our friends, The Truth About College is another great uh resource.

Trusted Resources And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_03

I I they're led by trusted professionals and trusted friends. Um, I also really have appreciated the parent forums for the university where my students attend. Um, parents who are going through this before, they're living out the experience. Um and then I I want to give a nod to our school counselors, our secondary school counselors who are working with our students every single day in their environments. They are deeply connected to the college admissions process. And uh on the college side, we are friends with many of them. And so families can leverage their knowledge, they know resources, they provide significant resources for families within their school community. Um, but they are and they know your students, and they know about students who have gone on to college from that high school or school environment. So they are just um they are tremendous advocates and supporters for both the students and the families in this process, and I just can't sing their praises enough.

SPEAKER_01

Great. Well, we'll put that list in the show notes. Um so much to think about in terms of both the admission process and the experiences on college. And and I I think I'm hearing, you know, there are some special things for first generation students, but um but that that we all as families are are learning the process because even those of us who went to college did it a while ago. And keeping that open mind um for everyone is really going to be helpful. So, Sasha Teamy, thank you so much for spending as much time as you have with us and sharing so much wisdom that parents are going to find useful. Um, we will put some of this information in the show notes, and we hope it's helpful to everyone. So, thank you.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you both, and thanks for this opportunity. And to our families, you're doing a great job.

SPEAKER_01

And we'll see you next time.