College Parent Central Podcast

#155 - The Importance of Transparency for College Preparation

• Vicki Nelson, Lynn Abrahams, Elizabeth Hamblet • Season 7 • Episode 155

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Based on an article that Elizabeth wrote recently, Vicki and Elizabeth sat down to talk about the importance of transparency in conversations with your student. Elizabeth brings her LD expertise and discusses how to help your student understand their disabilities and why this understanding can help them advocate for themselves and have more confidence. As she often does, Vicki sees this advice as important for all students (with and without disabilities) so we discuss the importance of the language parents use, the amount and type of support they provide, and how to encourage students to advocate for themselves. You know your student’s needs best, but we encouraged parents to have direct and meaningful conversations with their student.

Thank you for listening!

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to the College Parent Central Podcast. Whether your child is just beginning the college admission process or is already in college, this podcast is for you. You'll find food for thought and information about college and about navigating that delicate balance of guidance, involvement, and knowing when to get out of the way. Join your hosts as they share support and a celebration of the amazing experience of having a child in college.

SPEAKER_03

Welcome to the College Parent Central Podcast. We are the podcast that talks about all kinds of things that have to do with being a college parent, being the parent of a student who is thinking about or about to head to college, and sometimes students who are graduating from college. Just about anything you can think of, we try to touch on it. My name is Vicky Nelson, and I am here today with one of my co-hosts, Elizabeth Hamblett. I am a professor of communication at a small liberal arts college, and I am also an academic advisor. And so I work with students, college students every day. And maybe even more importantly, I am the parent of three daughters who have gone to college and who've all graduated and we all survived. So that's the perspective that I come from. And I'm going to let Elizabeth introduce herself.

SPEAKER_01

Well, we're grateful you survived, Vicki.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, thank goodness.

What Transparency Really Means

SPEAKER_01

Um, Elizabeth Hamblett. I am a college learning disability specialist and the author of Seven Steps to College Success: A Pathway for Students with Disabilities. I always want to put the colon in there when I say the title. Uh I too am the uh parent of two college graduates. Um, and you know, the other part of my time outside of the university work is spent trying to uh educate parents and K-12 professionals about the changes at college. And that is a little bit of a lead into the conversation today.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, um this was my idea. I'll take credit or blame, as depending on how it goes. Um, but Elizabeth just wrote uh an article that I sometimes I stumble on on these things that uh really made an impression on me. Um, and it was called The Importance of Transparency in College Preparation for Students with Disabilities. And what I just wanted to do was take off the with disabilities because that seems to be the approach I often take. Um, that really it was about the importance of transparency in college preparation for students. And Elizabeth's field, of course, is to talk about students with disabilities, and that that was really important and a lot of good information there. But as I kept reading the article, I kept thinking, well, yeah, but this applies to all students, to all students. So I thought what we could do is just sort of unpack this article a little bit and some of the things that Elizabeth um talked about. And if you have a student with disabilities, you absolutely, you know, want to be hearing this. And if you have a student who does not have disabilities, you absolutely want to be hearing this because you know, with a few little tweaks, it really applies to all students and this this idea of transparency. So I wanted to start by just we're not going to read the article to you, but I I just wanted to read the first sentence of the article to kind of give a give a sense of where we are. So Elizabeth says, when students with disabilities transition to college, they'll need self-knowledge in order to register for accommodations, figure out how to study and work effectively, and seek help when needed. Excuse me. And in that, I really hear so many of the themes that we talk about all the time. Um, and you know, neurotypical students may not need to register for accommodations, but they certainly do need to figure out how to study and work effectively. And help seeking is a huge issue as well. So I thought let's start. Um, I'll put Elizabeth on the spot um and and say, well, what do we mean by transparency?

SPEAKER_01

Well, uh what we mean is, I mean, you did put me on the spot. Okay. I did. There you go.

SPEAKER_02

You used the word.

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna I'm gonna punt it and say that uh the transparency piece was um something that came to me through somebody else's podcast. So I am a fan and subscriber to the Tilt Parenting podcast. Um my my friend uh Deborah Rieber um is a longtime um podcaster. She's the author of uh Differently Wired, a Parent's Guide to Raising an Atypical Child with Confidence and Hope. And um a few years ago, uh her child was um, you know, moving through their high school years, and she talked, she did an episode about um, you know, talking to that student about their needs and about the things that had been, you know, done to support them. And it really struck me because um there are there are a couple of different things. Um, there are there is talk in my field of the college uh disability services field amongst colleagues about students who sometimes um come to their offices, um, or the parents, I should say, approach their offices and say, my student needs accommodation, um, but they've never seen their paperwork and they don't know what their disability is, and I don't want you to tell them. And that is not a common occurrence, but it certainly does come up. And that really strikes me as, you know, depriving a student of a student of really crucial self-knowledge. Um, and we that's later in the in the article and we can talk about it, but um there are supports that um students receive that that may mask the effect of their disability uh on their functioning and they achieve a certain level of academic achievement, um but with with supports that may not be available to them later or that don't that are in place instead of a focus on building their skills. And so um there are lots of wonderful parenting writers and podcasters talking about this, and I just thought it was worth talking about because part of what you know we also talk about in my work is those, and I mentioned it, the accommodations that students don't uh typically get at the college level. And so when we are bolstering students' academic achievement in the high school by providing certain supports, what we're doing is setting them up for real change at the college level. And I understand the reluctance to pull certain things away, um, but it can leave a student feeling really, you know, unprepared for the college environment. So I'm not sure I did such a great job of explaining what transparency is, but let's let's keep going.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, no, I think I think that helps. And you know, you're you're talking about it in terms of of students not understanding their own um disabilities, um, but and the and the college supports, the high school supports, sorry, um, setting them up for success in high school, but not necessarily preparing them for college. And I think, again, I keep going back to the more than neurotypical students because those are the ones I see in in my classroom every day. And, you know, I'm thinking about all of the things that we do as parents to support them and keep them successful in high school, but is that really preparing them for college? And I mean things like waking them up in the morning and helping them get up since they turn the alarm clock off and you know, go back to sleep, or um when they forget something at school, we we run down and if we can and and drop it off, or um, you know, we reach out to the teacher and and have a conversation rather than saying to the student, you know, you all of those things, everything we do, I think it's worth us examining what we're doing to support our student. We we want to support our students, but where does support end and setting them up for not being able to do it themselves later?

SPEAKER_01

And if I could finish that thought, support them in what? Support them to to get to what goal. And so I think that's you know what we're talking about. Now, you know, with regard this again, this the the the germ of this idea came from Debbie's podcast episode about, you know, we and and and I sometimes uh preface my remarks when I give a presentation by saying, I'm going to use the word disability um in this talk or in this piece of writing, because um in order to be eligible for accommodations at the college level, it has to be a disability. It is the Americans with Disabilities Act and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 is about students with disabilities. Um, and so you know, there is some uh well-meaning language that people use, like uh neurodivergent and uh learning differences, and these are all meant to, you know, provide a much more positive framing. And I'm not trying to say there's anything inherently bad about that. Um, but it um at some point students need to know is this truly just you know a learning difference? And you know, there are things I'm kind of good at and things I'm not as good at, or is it truly a disability? And in in the blog post, you know, there were some quotes from a qualitative study that was done about 12 years ago now, I think. And, you know, one of the students that they spoke to said that she did not know what learning difference meant, and that, you know, she could have registered with the disability services office, but she kind of didn't think that that was something she needed to do. Um, and she had really been ill-prepared for explaining herself or understanding herself when she got to college. So, you know, that is maybe very specific to the disability world, but if we try to pull the lens out a little bit more broadly, you know, what do you think is language parents may be using with their students that sort of masks what's you know what the reality is?

Language That Masks Reality

SPEAKER_03

Right. And so it it uh it it it comes back to us, I think, thinking about what we do, right? Thinking about how we talk to our students about those things, um, and being open. Uh you know, it it makes me think there was there was a I I haven't answered your question about what I think about.

SPEAKER_01

I did notice that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I would maybe I'd be a good politician, I don't know. Um, but because I'm not sure I have an answer of specific things, but yeah, it it because it's also personal, it depends on your relationship with your student, and it depends on what when you look at yourself, how are you supporting your student and you know what how are you talking to your student about things? And I I think one of the areas that this transparency is so important um also has to do with some of the financial conversations that people have. Because often it's the parents who are dealing with the big questions, tuition and you know, the big money issues. And students are uh, you know, a lot of students are more focused on, you know, day-to-day, you know, I have a summer job, and that gives me the money, and that that allows me to buy pizza or you know, whatever. But but parents are the ones filling out the loan applications and all of that. Now, in some families, it's definitely teamwork, but I think often we don't talk to our students enough about those big financial issues. And they really need to understand what you know what what's on the line, um, how important to us being able to do college are those merit scholarships that you got, and what happens if you lose those merit scholars scholarships? And you know, the fine finances seems to be another area where often the transparency isn't what it could be. Um but as you were talking, I there was one so much of this article was was so good, but there was one sentence that really struck me. Um and it was one study revealed the reason some students lacked this knowledge, whatever we're talking about, no one spoke to them directly and meaningfully about it. And that idea of direct directly and meaningfully it I mean I it literally made me sad that how uh but how often are we not direct and having meaningful conversations with our students um about everything going on uh around? Um I I don't know, it's just I it's something that directly and meaningful stuck in my mind, and I would I I you know I would offer that to parents to to think about.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I mean, they're gonna go off to a place where, you know, legally, even if they're not 18 yet, they are considered adults in the eyes of the law. If they are registered full-time at college, this has nothing to do with dual enrollment programs. This is for high school graduates who have gone off to college. And so, you know, maybe that's a helpful framing too of you know, once they get out there, they are adults. And so you should be comfortable speaking to them, yeah, like you would another adult about anything that you think is, you know, meaningful. Um go ahead.

SPEAKER_03

And well, as as you're talking about at 18 or when they go off to college, if you have a precocious 14-year-old going to college, they're considered an adult. Um it it it it makes me think of FERPA, the Federal Educational Rights and Privacy Act, and and we have podcasts about that and articles about that. Um but but that's why often parents are so anxious to um to get the information. I need to have the information about my students' grades, I need to have the information about whether my students are doing their assignments, I need because they haven't had these direct conversations about you need to be responsible for yourself. And I've been tracking all of that all along. So it's especially hard for me to let go. So I I want to move ahead and and and and really what I wanted to do was just sort of touch on some of the sections of your article and give you an opportunity to talk a little bit about it and then you know think about how it applies to everybody. And and and one of the sections of the article had to do with um how sometimes our use of language interferes with this transparency.

SPEAKER_01

So do you want to unpack that a little bit? Sure. So again, you know, I wrote this for the very disability-focused um, you know, viewpoints. So uh, you know, these terms that we use, like neurodivergent and um learning differences, um, and differently abled. Um, and it's interesting because when I was writing uh the third edition of my book, I thought a lot about language. And when I was writing the first two versions, it was um, and it still is in a lot of places, person first language, a student with dyslexia, a student with autism. And there are folks in the disability community that actually prefer to have disability um first language to be referred to as an autistic person, as a deaf person. And so um I think, you know, and there there was another um podcast that I love that I am a subscriber to um called the Learn Smarter Podcast, two friends of mine who are uh educational therapists. And they did one on, you know, when parents will not share anything with their student about what their disability is, you know, they they go through an evaluation and nobody ever talks to them about it. That sometimes, you know, what will happen is the student will think it's so bad, the parents won't actually tell them what it is. Um, and so I think, you know, often students might know that something is different about them. And sometimes having an actual label can be useful to them. And it's you know, we're not trying to make it their whole identity or the sum of who they are. It is, but for some of them, when they have a significant, you know, and again, learning disabilities and ADHD is my area, um, a significant disability, um, you know, we have to acknowledge that it is something that they're also gonna have to manage at college. And so that, you know, and that is what led to the rest of the article that we can talk about in a in a minute. But um, this idea that uh if we don't tell them stuff, it sort of isn't there, you know, and it's not real and it and it won't affect them. And so, you know, parents do everything they do for their children, their students, because they love them and they want to have them have a good experience and protect them from things that are harmful. Um, but I think that, you know, talking to them about the things that you do for them that they might be expected to do, you know, for themselves and how you are, if this is the case, um, you know, advocating for them in ways that you will not be able to later. So I think there are lots of different aspects to the to the language discussion that parents can think about. Um, you know, um, and later there's another uh podcast episode I talk about where um I think it's is it Lisa or um oh my goodness, it's my my mind is uh blank right now. Uh the Two Black Moms and a Mike podcast, where um I'm sorry, Glenda, um talked about a student who you know really struggled with math and had a math-based learning disability and wanted to go study, I forget what the you know, something that was going to require a lot of math. And I think sometimes we say to our students, and maybe perhaps uh, you know, students, parents of students with disabilities foremost, there's nothing you can't do. You know, this will not be, you know, in your way. We will make sure you have appropriate accommodations. And if you just try hard enough, you can do that. And I don't, this is where the the lens goes back out to all students. There are just some things that are very, very hard for all of us, be not necessarily because we have a disability, and we need to have a sense of you know where our strengths lie and where our liabilities are, and whether those liabilities are big enough that it it might be impossible to pass those classes.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. That that really is essential, and it's really hard, I think, for parents to not not just hard to talk about with your student, but sometimes hard to accept. That that you know, if you if you if you just work hard enough, you'll you'll be able to do that. Um, and it does apply to all students. I have um I have an advisee. I I'm I work with with a lot of students in terms of uh helping them through their major and helping them plan their classes each semester. That's what an advisor does, and you know, but when there are problems, somebody to talk to. Um, and I have a student who decided after um a semester um that she wanted to change her major, and she wanted to change to um exercise science because she liked the idea of either being a physical therapist or Or uh trainer, uh athletic trainer, or something like that. And we looked at the major, and I had to say, have you, you know, have you that's great. But the major is three math classes, anatomy and physiology, one and two, chemistry, one and two, physics. I mean, well, how are you with science? Well, that's not my greatest strength. So then that's not the major for you.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_03

And and then some really good conversations can happen. And this happens to be advisor to advise E, but it can happen at home with parents as well, of exploring options. And maybe you need to bring somebody else in to help, you know, talk about what are the options or what are the ways to get into that world without being the physical therapist or something like that. So um, so it's all students have their strengths and their weaknesses, and being realistic about what those weaknesses may be. Um and and and the other thing, some students will be able to do it, but it's going to be really, really hard. Yeah. And recognizing that hard isn't bad is helpful. Uh you laugh at me. Seriously. No, I mean, I agree. Like it's so important. We are averse to things being hard. Um if it's not easy for me, then I shouldn't be doing it. And sometimes you have to, you know, if if if the goal is there and you really want it, you it it has to be, you know, it may be hard. Um, and and that's true of hard conversations, too, I think, and talking about that. Um so you talked in the article too about two kinds of supports that sometimes get in the way of this transparency. And one was um school and outside supports and how they might interfere. And then also you talked about family supports, which we've really touched on, but you know, there may be more we need to say. So, how do the things, the supports that either the school is providing or other outside sources or families are providing, how do they get in the way of transparency?

High School Supports Vs College Access

SPEAKER_01

Sure. So, you know, one of the things that I talk about in my work is this difference between the mandate for K-12 schools under IDEA, Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, and the two laws I've already mentioned that are in place at the college level. And, you know, they're they're sort of um boiled down by my colleagues too. A difference on a difference in a focus on student success in K-12 versus providing access, you know, through the disability services office at college. And so that takes a lot of different forms. So um, I know when students are, and I I I I had to do this when back in the 90s for one of the students on my caseload. Um, when when the the IEP is written so that the teacher is emailing the student the assignments. Um when the student gets to re and retake some uh a test or rewrite a paper for a better grade. These are all designed to bolster a student's academic success. But what it is not doing is working on their skills. And these are the kinds of things that, you know, I never say never, but very, you know, if they're done at the college level, it's extremely rare. And that's party, you know, the the expectations we have for all students, whether they have a disability or not, is that they're going to log into the course management system and find out when stuff is due. Our professor is perfect about my with apologies to my company, current company, uh perfect about loading their syllabus in the in the um in the course management system or updating it when they make changes. They're not, but these are things that students have to deal with. And so if it's an adult-driven um accommodation in high school where a somebody does something in place of the student having to find a system to manage it, those are the kinds of things that can mask um, you know, how they will do in college. Um, when they meet with somebody every day, you know, in a learning center, and that person structures that meeting and says, okay, you know, do you do this? You take out your assignment notebook, let's look over what you have. Um, will the student take those, are there skills actually being developed there that they will then take to the college level? I mean, I spend all day talking to students about how much free time they have to manage and how hard it is to manage that time. But what I try to talk to them about is, you know, imposing structure and having a routine and checking that, you know, starting this semester by making a list of all the assignments week by week and then referencing that list and double checking it against the course management system. I mean, there's so much they have to do on their own. And so when they're getting a lot of adult direction or you know, re adult replacement of somebody doing something that they could be doing, though with difficulty, um, it's not setting them up well.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and I I you know, I think about all students, I think about the students I see in my classroom, and I do teach a lot of first-year students, and that idea of self-management and time management. Uh, I mean, they have all this free time uh that they haven't had, and they need to learn that you know, free time doesn't mean you have nothing to do, it just means it's your time to to schedule the way you want it to. I think it doesn't help that so many students in you know, elementary, middle, high school are so scheduled.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Time Management And Letting Them Fail

SPEAKER_03

Their lives are completely scheduled. They have seven hours a day in school, and then you know, often have a list of things after that. Some of them go to a job for a few hours, some of them have athletic practices or band practice or you know, dance classes, or you know, whatever else they're doing. And and there's really only maybe a couple of hours in the evening that they get to have any say over what happens. Um, and you know, uh as you were talking, and I was trying to picture, you know, where it because they're so scheduled, and I there's probably nothing we can do about that the way their lives are these days, it seems as though one of the one of the areas, and this is scary, I think, for parents, where you can begin to help your student figure out how to keep track and manage time and check things and keep lists and all, is the college admission process. And you know, we jump in because it's so important. Oh, I I mean, I a number of parents I've talked to, high school parents, who say, I don't dare let my student be in charge of that because they're gonna miss deadlines and they're gonna do this and the other thing. Right. And I am not suggesting, you know, let go of the reins and give them free reign, you know, just say, let me know when you get, you know, here we are beginning the the process. Let me know when you get that final acceptance letter. But but instead of mom or dad color coding the Excel spreadsheets and you know, putting the dates on the calendar, sit with your student and help them do it and then let them go from there. And might they miss some kind of deadline somewhere along the line? Maybe. And might that be the best learning lesson they're gonna have? I I don't know, but having those opportunities to work on those things are and not rescuing them. I know one of our favorite books, both of us, is you you're smiling because you know what I'm gonna mention is Jessica Leahy's Gift of Failure. Um, and I would highly recommend that to any parent who has not already read that. Um, some of which, you know, if you're the parent of an elementary school student, it's time to read it. And if but it's never too late. Um, so even if you missed that opportunity, um, you know, she talks about her her child leaving the homework paper home on the coffee table, and she sees it in the morning and knows he's supposed to turn it in that day. And it's okay, you know, she has this wrestle with herself all day. Should I take it? Should I take it to the school? And you know, get and and she doesn't. And then when the child comes home, and what happened, what happened? And they say, Oh, it's okay. I talked to the teacher, and the teacher said, if I bring it in tomorrow, you know, I'll be marked down a couple of points, but it's gonna be fine. They handled it. Um, yeah, so yeah, that's a good book to really talk about how to start to take those baby steps to let them.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And you know, I understand that for parents of students with disabilities, failure is a word that is very upsetting, in part because sometimes students don't get identified as having a disability until they've, you know, hit some level of failure. And so they're worried about their child's self-esteem, and that is really important. Um, but I I think that if if students don't recognize, for instance, that they are constantly leaving stuff behind, they need to be motivated to work on a system that helps that make sure that that does not happen to them. And that is the piece that I think is sometimes missing with these well-intentioned accommodations is um, you know, I really want students to go to school, to college, feeling confident. And I believe that confidence comes out of competence, of the acknowledgement, the recognition that they can do things. And none of us does anything perfectly. So that is part of the worry, too. So, you know, um, I have certainly worked with and colleagues talk a lot about students whose perfectionism is really, really a problem. They cannot turn anything in until they've decided it's perfect. And maybe, you know, the the parent, the fam, the parents convince, you know, the teachers in the high school to be flexible about that because Elizabeth is so brilliant as a writer, but you know, she just needs that extra time to tweak that. Well, a you know, professors may not feel the same way about that, but also there's nothing about that process, you know, maybe Elizabeth needs therapy to help her, you know, get uh to a place where she can feel comfortable turning something in. But that's you know, sometimes that asking other things to happen in place of the student having to address the thing that that's a challenge for them, I think is well intentioned, but kind of short-sighted.

SPEAKER_03

No, and you know, as you talk about professors who are cold-hearted and don't give don't give this extra time, um, sometimes that's often me, um, but sometimes it's because I know your boss isn't going to do that once you get the job. And so, you know, parents can help students get ready for college. And then in college, a big part of our job is to help them get ready for the workforce. And it chances are pretty good when the boss says, I need this memo on my desk by noon on Friday. They need it at noon on Friday and not uh, oh yeah, next Wednesday will be fine because I know it will, you know, maybe you could do a little better job if you got it done. So it's really that forward thinking, you know, yeah at each stage are we thinking about what then what the next phase is going to be.

SPEAKER_01

And and I was gonna say, and even if they don't need it, they just want it, and so that is that's where the bottom line is. Yeah, yeah, you know, sometimes the world is not flexible for people, and it's it's not necessarily the right thing, but we don't help our students by you know smoothing every path for them. We just literally can't, and so no matter how wonderful and involved parents are, eventually students will encounter something where they they can't be there, they can't help, they can't intervene. And we want students to have some experience with resilience too, and we don't build it by not allowing them to experience small difficulties and realize that you know the sun comes up the next day and you get up and you have your breakfast and you keep going.

Help-Seeking Builds Confidence

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, uh, you know, I really like in in everything you've been saying, uh I'm hearing confidence and competence, yeah, and self-esteem, yeah, and and self-respect. Um, and I, you know, all of those come from from that that self-management and that self-um self-determination, I think was actually a word that you used in the article, you know, that I that I have it's empowering. I have control over this thing, but I need to know what I'm what I have control over. And that's where that transparency is. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. Um and and part of that then too is also knowing what what kind of help you need. I mean, one of one of the things, and we have a I think we have a podcast on it, and I know there is at least one article on on the College Parents Central website about um students help seeking. And and it's it's really a problem um for all kinds of students, students with disabilities, but all the rest of them as well. They they just don't ask for help. And there are all kinds of reasons, and I I I'm pretty sure we have an article on that, and and I'll link to it in the show notes. Um, you know, that there that there are different students for different reasons, may avoid asking for help. I don't want to look stupid. Um, I don't know that I need help. I don't think help will help me. I think I'm a lost cause. Um, and so the more they can understand about why they need help and what resources are available, that's a that's a thing where parents can help students who are headed to college. Let's let's look and see what are the resources that are there for you. Um, but sometimes I think college, you know, I think colleges work hard on that. I I work a lot with students coming in to college. Um and the college works hard to make sure they know there's a writing center, there's a tutoring center, the librarians will help you and all of this. But just helping them know what the resources are doesn't mean they will pre be be proactive in asking for it. Yes. Um, so it's a combination of you know, education, knowing what's there, but understanding why I might need it and then how to ask for the for the help. It's really complex.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and that is one of the things that I mentioned in the piece is that sometimes, like I said, you know, students, at least in the school setting, get to meet with somebody every day, and they don't even have to work at something and reach a point of frustration before, you know, without an adult being right there. And so I have had students who say, Well, I don't even know how to articulate what I don't understand. Well, that is that is a problem. And um, when somebody is always there, I mean, I have friends who are um college admission consultants who help students work with their search and they talk to the, you know, and that's neurotypical uh students about a tutor comes every week to do this and a tutor comes every week to do that. And so, you know, you can get tutoring at college, and if your family has enough, you know, financial resources, you can find somebody to tutor the student. But I still think that that that lack of confidence and the worry about, well, am I only successful at this because there's always somebody there to help me? Um, and you know, also my experience with college students is it's certainly possible they will not be able to find somebody willing to tutor them at 2 a.m., which is when they're doing the assignment that's due at nine when class starts.

Start Early And Keep It Real

SPEAKER_03

So that's true. Student hours are a little bit different. Um, but that then that helps them, you know, begin to think about um procrastination and planning ahead and not leaving things to. I mean, there's so many things that are all woven together. Um, and I, you know, I I I'd like in your article, um, I mean, to begin to try to pull this together, um, that you you do make the point that that this shouldn't wait until we're about to head off to college. This is this is a long, it's a long-term process. And and what they're if you start really early with small steps, then the bigger steps are going to be easier later. But if you wait until the end, I you know, like going back to our w one of my favorites, Jessica Leahy, um, her other book, The Addiction Inoculation, which is a great book, um, but she she talks about, you know, you don't wait until your student's about to head off to college and then say, we now have to talk about alcohol and drugs. Um, but it starts even, you know, when they're very, very young, and saying, you know, this is this is mommy's prescription, and see it has her name on it, and so only I, you know, can can take it. And and then gradually you you work up. And uh, I think keeping that in mind in terms of being transparent early on doesn't mean you have to spill everything in every last detail. It's just beginning to understand and letting it grow.

SPEAKER_01

Right, it should be age appropriate. Um, but I I think trying to shield them from everything is um going to create problems for them down the road. And you know, we you you I I challenged you earlier when we said you said we want to support them. Well, support them in what? And presumably the answer is becoming an independent, you know person with a sense of agency and a sense of purpose. And um sometimes what we do for our our students out of love does not enhance, you know, doesn't move them toward that goal.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that's a great thought to to end this with. And it goes back back to where we started, and that idea of direct and meaningful conversations at whatever level, um, and really thinking about what that end goal is. Um thanks for letting me pick your brain about your article.

SPEAKER_02

Sorry, never really answered the provided a good uh definition of transparency. Hopefully, we explained it even if we didn't perfectly explain it.

SPEAKER_03

Sometimes you have to go around it um and and you and you wind up on it. But it's it's direct and meaningful and um talking about the practical realities um and all of that. So I hope it's been helpful to parents. Um and we we mentioned you know a whole bunch of things. We've mentioned a couple of books, we've mentioned articles. I know you have a couple of other articles that probably relate. So we're gonna list all of those things in the show notes so people can follow up and um and we will also um if if they want to look for this article, it's on your website, ldadvisory.com. Um, and we'll link link to that. In the show notes so people can follow up. And thanks to everybody for sticking with us to the end of this roundabout conversation. And we'll see you next time. Thanks, Vicki.