College Parent Central Podcast

#146 Minors Matter

• Vicki Nelson, Lynn Abrahams, Elizabeth Hamblet

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Your student keeps hearing “What’s your major?” but the smarter question might be “What’s your mix?” In this episode, Vicki and Sarah explore the real value of college minors—what they are, how they fit inside a standard 120-credit path, and why four to six targeted courses can shift confidence, sharpen skills, and make a resume pop. We talk through mixing theory and hands-on learning, using minors to complement or contrast a major, and crafting a degree that tells a clear story about curiosity and capability. Advising matters more than ever. 

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SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to the College Parent Central Podcast. Whether your child is just beginning the college admission process or is already in college, this podcast is for you. You'll find food for thought and information about college and about navigating that delicate balance of guidance, involvement, and knowing when to get out of the way. Join your hosts as they share support and a celebration of the amazing experience of having a child in college.

SPEAKER_04:

Welcome to the College Parent Central Podcast. This is the podcast where we talk about just about everything that has to do with being the parent of a college student, the parent of a high school student who may be headed to college, and sometimes we even talk about students who are out of college and what it's like when they take those first steps beyond college. Because all of those are parenting challenges as we go along. My name is Vicki Nelson, and I am a professor of communication at a small liberal arts college in New England. And I am also, and sometimes more importantly, the parent of three daughters who have all gone to college. They have all come out the other side. So we have lived through all kinds of college experiences. And that's sometimes even more important than my work as a professor, although it means that I work with students every day and see what's going on in their lives. And I am very excited because I'm here today with another one of our co-hosts that doesn't get to join us as often because she is a very busy person. So I'm going to let her introduce herself.

SPEAKER_02:

Sure. Thank you so much, Vicky. I'm Sarah Shane, I'm the director of advising and academic success at a small liberal arts college. And yes, it is a very busy, it is a very busy place. And I also am the mom of two students, one who is a recent college graduate. He's a double major and was a double minor, which is fitting for what we're going to be talking about. And then my uh another son, who's a sophomore, and we're having similar conversations right now about looking at the degree and what other avenues might make sense.

SPEAKER_04:

So some of it is a little bit in the rearview mirror for me, but you are living it day to day. And uh and it it's very different when you're in the middle of it all. Sure. Um and you know, it as you were introducing yourself, uh I it was interesting because we used to talk about the office of academic advising, and now it's advising and student success.

SPEAKER_02:

Academic success?

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, so that so that a lot of colleges now have designated people and designated offices just to help students figure out how to make everything work. Exactly. It's important that parents know that because that's a kind of support that when we went to college didn't exist. Sure. So it's certainly different. But what we wanted to talk about today is minors, because students get asked all the time, and and you know, they come home for the holidays or the as they're in the admissions process. Excuse me. Um people say, you know, what are you gonna major in? What are you gonna do? What kind of job do you want to get? And and there there's always the question about major, but not so much about minor. Um and so we thought it might make sense to talk a little bit, see if we could understand a little bit more about what minors are and why they matter and how they work and and all of that, because not everybody understands it. Um so so really starting at the beginning, I don't know, Sarah, do you want to take a stab at sort of defining what is a minor?

SPEAKER_02:

Sure, sure. So it's another kind of avenue or field of study that is smaller than the major, and it typically comes out of a student's kind of pod of general electives. So if you're kind of looking at a you know, pie chart or, you know, a circle, um, you know, the major has a great big piece of the pie, and then you'd have general education requirements or liberal arts at different schools or called different things, but that would also be a decent sized piece of the pie. And then you have the, you know, a great big remaining piece of the pie that's just general electives that for the most part can be any college-level course. And typically when students choose a minor, that kind of siphons off about four to six courses, um, depending on each school and a number of things, but that kind of will become a minor. So it's a way in which you can um get a little bit more advanced knowledge in a field. So general electives are great, but they can be anything, and that's certainly encouraged as well. Um, but the minor focuses um on an area.

SPEAKER_04:

I think focus is a is a good word because it really does sort of narrow, narrow the focus a little bit. And some students, some students really want to explore everything, and they don't want that focus, and then others really say, but you know, this is an area that I want a little bit more. And um, and it, you know, four to six courses, which most of them are, there might be some of you know, some more complicated, complex minors that would be a little more. That's not that much. Um, and you know, you were we we always throw these things around that we understand. Um, talking about general education courses, which are those those um usually all college requirements that students have to do. And then these general electives that students have to take because they have to reach a certain threshold of the number of credits that they have to graduate.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes.

SPEAKER_04:

It's often around 120, I think. And so, you know, they've done everything for their major and they've done everything that the college is asking them to do for college requirements, and they still aren't at 120. So that's these general electives. Um and it's only four or six courses, so you know that that sort of answers the question that that was going around in my mind, and that is that sometimes when you talk to students, it seems as though it's going to be so hard to get this major done. You know, the major requires me to do this and this and this. And I, you know, I I don't know if how am I going to complete a major. How could I possibly take on a minor in addition to to the major? But the fact that it's a shorter list of classes and um sometimes some minors have required classes. You have to do this and this.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, maybe typically one course will be, you know, maybe the intro or one or two, but most of them you typically have a choice. Some might say you need to take the intro in the subject area, and then maybe a 1000 or 2,000 level or 3,000, they might have some kind of parameters, but for the most part, you have a lot of flexibility. Right. And I find too that a lot of students kind of it's almost 50-50 how students fall into minors because some um come gung-ho and they're super excited and they, you know, they know they're minor, they're majoring in something else. And um, you know, this when we can talk about this later too, it may or may not have anything to do with a major. Right. Um, so that's a whole other topic, but you know, we can get to, but so some students come into it intentionally, right? But a lot of students are the opposite, and they absolutely don't. They don't even, you know, kind of know the term or know it's an option or why they should do it. And a lot of them um end up exploring an a focus area because they've taken some general it or you know, whatever again, liberal arts courses, general education requirements in a field that were actually really interesting. So, and to give a little, you know, kind of background of what that might mean. So a lot of schools, you know, you have to take a certain number of credits in humanities and certain credits in social sciences. So upon doing that, you know, most places you you have an array of choices within that. So students kind of try to choose ones that are of interest to them, and then they take one. They're like, well, that was interesting. What else you got?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And then they take a second, and then maybe they take a third, and then they re and then they realize if I take one more class, I have a minor. And so that's that stumbling into the minor without really and then watching that realization happen for some students is actually kind of fun because it's like I just realized if I just take one more, I have a minor in psychology. And I was just taking psych classes because I was interested. Yeah, because I like them. So um so so it really, it really is doable. And you said that your your oldest had a double minor.

SPEAKER_02:

He did, he did, and again, it was the same thing. He hadn't intended to do that. Um, he actually changed he started with one major, then changed that major, and then realized he really liked another major and ended up with two majors, and then um a minor he realized that was um kind of similar to some of the things he was learning, but a little outside the bend. So he was like, Oh, let me see, because he still needed credits. Yeah. And so that worked. And then he was like, uh-huh. What if I tried this? And then ended up, and and part of that, I mean, that's a little extreme, two majors and two minors, but um, if you I guess if you have a mother who's director of advising and harassing you nonstop to look at your degree plan and your degree audit and see it. Figure, yeah, yeah. So um, but I think you know, you to to have more than one, you might need to be a little kind of strategic and plan ahead a little bit. Um, but the you know, he really did fall into them um because he was enjoying learning things that he hadn't necessarily anticipated. Yeah. And I mean, of course, that's the point of college. You know, you you and and so many students I like you were saying, focus on the major. And it's interesting. And we watch students who come in committed to being ex major, and then they take a semester or two of that, and they're like, oh, this isn't really what I thought it was good. Right. And so, you know, but then they find that you know they were taking some other kind of you know, general elective courses, and they really like those, and they either in many cases became a major, a minor, or their major they changed to. So it's very interesting how students come to this in different things.

SPEAKER_04:

Or the the the thing that was a major, and they took a few courses and then said maybe not, not this is really not where I want to be. I'm going to switch. But that thing that was their major now can become a minor because they have, you know, maybe it's take one more course that that's stumbling in because of of the switch. Yeah. And so it's a way to um, if you if you do change, and often when students change major, parents panic. You know, oh my god, you're changing. What do you what does that mean? What is it? How long are you gonna be there? What are you doing? Yeah. Um, and realizing that you know, often at that point they already have a lot of their general education, those liberal arts things taken care of, and now they may have have that minor, and so it um it works that way. Um and a minor is in most cases not required.

SPEAKER_02:

Right, right. I don't know of any schools off the top of my head that require a minor. Um, I think you know it's nice to at least mention the idea of it to students early on because they don't know that it even exists or what it entails, so that they can start thinking about it. Most schools have significantly more minors than majors. Oh, yeah, because it's so much it's so easy for it's much so easy, but it's easier to develop minors in terms of the inner workings of a college, kind of going through curriculum committee and all that. That's a different topic, but it is a lot easier to create a much smaller, you know, area of focus in a minor versus the kind of rigmarole that has to happen for a major.

SPEAKER_04:

And the minors can be very specialized. Yep. So that within, I mean, you might be a I keep picking on psychology, but uh, and I don't know why, but um, you know, you might be a psychology major, but if you're looking for a minor, it might be uh sports psychology or it might be family psychology. Counseling psychology. Yeah. So that um so that a broad department, a broad major would have s usually several smaller minors, partially because they're easier to put together, but also because they specialize.

SPEAKER_02:

Right, and they have the faculty who have the knowledge and can speak to that and put that together, and it's it's very kind of eye-opening for students, especially as as they go along in their major. And like you're saying, like they may take certain things and oh, I really like this aspect. And so then they start taking another more advanced course and maybe counseling psychology or something, and that's when they realize, oh, I actually could not far off from getting a minor. I didn't even know that existed, and I didn't even know I liked this, and so you know, so um it's it's nice to have that. I think when students can think about it more proactively, sometimes it can open a little bit more for them in terms of options because um, you know, they just have more time to explore. I think one thing that's hard is when students maybe don't realize till they're kind of senior year and they're like, Oh, I didn't know, you know, and so they take more courses and sometimes it it can still work out. You just have to kind of be a little strategic. But it's nice to start thinking about it ahead of time if you can, so that you can kind of at least leave space in your degree kind of plan, your degree on it for those courses, if you not take all these random courses and then say, Oh, I wish I had um more room to do this minor or something like that.

SPEAKER_04:

And you know, I think it's worth thinking about why why do a minor. You know, we we're talking about the ways that you can do a minor, and it's only four or six courses, and um, but there there are there are different reasons for wanting to do a minor. Um, I I think one of the things that seems sort of obvious, but is that it can complement the major. So I might be a business major, but I decide to do a minor in public relations or a a business major and I decide to do a minor in broadcasting because I really want to work in the broadcasting field, but I want to work in the management part of it. I don't want to be on air. So thinking about how can I mix and match, and and I think for students to really think ahead about about their resume and about the the jobs that they want, and how can some particular combination make them a little bit unique?

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly, exactly, and I think absolutely, I think that um a lot of students do think of things in a complementary way, like you're saying. So, I mean, if you're majoring in something and um that kind of has a a back door to my, you know, like you were saying, business, maybe to marketing or you know, something similar, and and which is great, and that's helpful when you're kind of taking those courses and realizing that. I think the thing that students don't often realize is that your minor can have absolutely nothing to do with your major and be something totally different. And we really try to encourage that too, because again, and and sometimes it happens the other way around, like we were mentioning before. Students started majoring in something that didn't end up being what they thought it was. Um, but but they thought that was gonna be their major, but they really loved, you know, maybe not to I guess focus on business, but so if they start taking business classes, they really thought that's what they were gonna major in, but maybe didn't have any experience with that because they weren't introduced to it in high school, and just kind of the idea of it was interesting. Um, so they wanted to major in that, um, but then really wanted to take they realized, you know, there's painting and there's different art and different kinds of things that they enjoyed doing in high school as hobbies. And a lot of students don't realize you can get credit for that. Those are credit-bearing courses. And um so for example, we I know we've had students who started in something that they thought was gonna they really gonna enjoy, and then maybe that wasn't that, but then their minor, which you know they were doing because it was a passion, right, ended up loving. So majoring in that, and then their former major is now a minor, yeah, and which works too, because then if you're some you know, kind of art major, it's nice to have a minor in business or something, especially if you're gonna be creating some kind of something that you're gonna market or you're gonna, you know, create and sell. You would nice to have a minor so that you know how to run a business and do accounting and that type of thing. So those aren't typically, you know, things that you think go together, but they in real life they do.

SPEAKER_04:

And it really helps students to start thinking about the mix and match and how you might. I remember at some point um talking to someone who was a theater major and wanted to be an actress, and what she was advised to do was to take psychology classes. Not because, you know, if you're going to be an actress and you're going to put portray characters, you have to understand how people think and and the mind and all of that. And you know, you would think of this this person who's the theater major as being the kind of artsy and all of that, but no, the psych classes were really helpful. Or someone who's going into sports broadcasting and might want to take a couple of criminal justice or law courses because that's going to help them understand some of the ethical kinds of issues that got. I mean it it's really fascinating to think about the conversations.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. And that's what's so exciting and unique about it because it's just so specific to the individual that we couldn't possibly think of all the combinations, but the students can as they start getting into these things and realize, oh, you have that? What does that mean? That's so that sounds so cool. What is that? And then I mean, similarly, I know of a student who's a dancer, and that's a lot of credits and a number of, you know, all kinds of courses. But then he was thinking of minoring in marketing because really you're gonna be an independent contractor of your own making once you graduate with that. So how do you market yourself and how do you, you know, sell yourself and create a website and do whatever digital things you need to do for that? And that's not the same skill set, and it's not automatic that just because you're good at one thing, you know how to kind of sell yourself. And again, whether that's dance or art or anything, right?

SPEAKER_04:

It's hard to figure that out. Interesting to think of those combinations. And you know, the other thing that it can balance is the theoretical and the practical. Like, you know, maybe you're majoring in something that's all very theoretical and research-based and uh something of that nature, and but but you then you want to minor in something that's going to give you more practical skills or the other way around. So not only the subject matter, but the type of approach and the type of of thing. Um and and then those amazing combinations make your resume just stand out, right? That uh, you know, they're going to be you know, there are going to be 50 people applying for this this PR job, but this you're the only one you're the only one that has this background in this other thing, or a couple of minors. I mean, you talked about two majors and two minors, that is more unusual, but one major and two or three minors is not that unusual. So you know, it makes you stand out in the kind of way.

SPEAKER_02:

And it's so true, and there's so many jobs that you know they can't post every aspect of the position in there, but then if they see a resume, oh, they have a background, that's great because you know, so it's just so nice if you can kind of figure out things that you're interested in and then you know, utilize them to kind of market yourself a little bit more and showcase all the things that you're that you're interested in and that you have a little more information about.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. You know, we've talked about how how a student might decide, you know, because he loves something or or because if it's going to compliment or unique and all of that. Um but I think one of the things you you you commented when you were talking about your son, you said, you know, it's because he has a mom who's advising. Um, and not many students do have moms who are professional advisors, um, but they want to work with their advisors. There there are advisors there, their academic advisor or somebody in an advising center or a career center or something to really understand what the options are uh and and and what makes sense and when to start. And and you may only have to take four or six courses, but sometimes they have to be in sequence.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly. And you can't necessarily wait till the you know last year because they're not all offered every semester, or like you're saying, one might have a prerequisite to something else. And I think that's just so important too, to really talk to your whether it's your academic advisor or someone in career services or who would who whatever the resources are that are available to you, don't be shy, don't wait for them to ask you questions, like reach out. They want to help you. They're there because they love what they do and they want to help you love what you're gonna do. And but you need to kind of speak up and reach out and and talk about the things that you're interested in.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

Because and we find that all the time with first year students who are a little bit more can be a little bit more quiet initially, a little more um kind of hesitant to talk to the grown-ups and the faculty and the staff.

SPEAKER_01:

Especially after COVID. Sure.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yes, of course, of course. Um, and the thing is the students don't have to know, especially right off the bat, all the things we offer, but the staff and the faculty do. So if you kind of start if the student starts to talk about things they're interested in, we can say, hey, guess what we have? Guess what might be of interest to you? And you know, there are so many, you know, majors, certainly majors, but especially minors out there that students would never have heard of from just what you're exposed to in high school.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

So, and that of course accounts for a lot of why students change their, you know, major, of course, when they get to college because they didn't even know that field existed. Right. So, I mean, this and it's the same with minors times 10, just because there's so many more minors. So it's just great to kind of really try to open up to the folks in your academic world who can support you because they can help you narrow down and you know, really see what's available to you that you may not even know.

SPEAKER_04:

And you don't need to be all in and declare a minor right off the bat. Oh, of course not. But what but what you can do is take a course. Yes. Knowing that this is a course that would count toward this minor if I wanted to. It could lead to something if Right. And you and so you're you're really sampling in a way. Um it's like, okay, I've looked at all these minors and I've committed that this is going to be the minor I'm going to do. Yeah, well, this one and this one both look interesting to me. Okay, take a course in both areas. Yep. And then see what speaks to you and and see where you go from there.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly. And it's it's just so interesting because, and it and it's a great point too, because so many students come to college and they say, you know, that I'm gonna be a you know, criminal justice major or a business major, and then they want to know, well, why why am I not taking five business courses? And I say five because that's the typical load, five three credit courses. Typically, that's you know, 15 credits a semester is typically about um what most um semesters in college entail, depending on each school, of course. But um, and the reason for that, of course, is there's many reasons, but um you know, colleges know that as much as you kind of think you know what you want to do, they know that for you to be a well-rounded educated individual, you have to know about more than just one thing. And so they want you to start with taking your writing and maybe a language and maybe a math, depending on what you know kind of options are there. Um, but also leaving room for what you're saying for taking some general electives in the first semester, in addition to maybe one, maybe two, but typically one major course, because that gives you the outlet to try new things before you get so focused without even realizing all the things that are available to you. So we always encourage students to, you know, certainly maybe writing is great because it you're gonna need that in most of your classes anyway. So kind of taking that sooner rather than later. Yeah, you really kind of need that as soon as possible. But and then your intro to your major course, um, and then see what else speaks to you because the sooner you look into things, the more you can be like, oh, this is really interesting. Or the opposite and say, Oh, that's not really what I thought it was going to be. What else you got? But that's great because then you open yourself up to different paths and other paths. So exploring is really the kind of the name of the game, and doing so from the very beginning and having an open mind as much as possible is you know, will only typically only helps you in the long run.

SPEAKER_04:

And you know, I think it's it's especially uh helpful for undecided students because they're they're sometimes they're almost paralyzed. I don't I'm afraid to start anything because it might not be what I really want. Um but so you start it and you see, and then if it isn't what you really want, maybe you abandon it entirely, or else maybe it becomes a minor. And it takes some of that stress away of of being an undecided student in the world. No, I think so.

SPEAKER_02:

And it's it's so interesting because I think that undecided students bring a um a different component, like you're saying, of a little bit of stress because they think that everybody else knows what they want to do because they've declared a major, which they don't realize that half of them are probably gonna change it at least once. Um but I think a unique kind of wonderful trait that many undecided students bring to the table is that once they try something, you know, they take an intro course on something and they're like, oh, okay, maybe you know, maybe they'll take the next one, or maybe that isn't really what I thought it was gonna be, and then they go right, you know, they're oh, here's my list of things I'm interested in. So they're very open to trying new things. And I think that's a wonderful trait that if all students could have that, um, because I think some students come in so focused that when something isn't what they thought it was gonna be, they kind of get paralyzed with, oh my gosh, what am I doing here? This isn't I can't oh yeah and kind of go down a little bit of a spiral. Yes, yes, without realizing that's okay. Like you came here to to grow and learn and you know develop, and it might not be in the ways that you automatically assumed. So that's okay to try new things. And I think minors end up being, if not intentional, a great byproduct of a lot of that.

SPEAKER_04:

Right, right. They can use them for all kinds of all kinds of reasons. You know, I think one of the fears, I think we've really talked about this, but I I I just want to make sure it's clear that uh a lot of parents might have, because parents are many times paying the tuition, is um will doing this minor, will adding a minor, um, mean extra time? Does it mean you're going to have, you know, you're on the five-year plan now instead of four? Right. And I think I yeah, you know, it shouldn't. It shouldn't. And and the fact that it is usually a very limited number of of courses and um and that students really do have room for all these electives. I think your description of the the pie chart is really helpful that you have a a good chunk of the pie that's your major because you're digging deep in that area. And then you have the general education, the liberal arts, the all college requirements, that's another part. But then there is this part that are those general electives, and that's where the minor can go. And those are the areas that you're a little shallower in. So you're You're deep in the major and shallow in this this other. Um so there should be plenty of room in terms of credits uh that it shouldn't take extra time unless it's senior year and you suddenly decide, you know, now I've just discovered that I love sociology and I want a sociology minor, and that's when you say, How much is it really worth it to you? Um and and because the minor is not required, if a student can't complete the minor, they just drop it. Right, right. There's no harm you can't do that with a major. You have to finish a major. But a minor is optional. Yeah. You you can't finish it, okay. That's fine.

SPEAKER_02:

That's and and that's fine too. And you know that it's something you're interested in, so you can explore that outside of college and other ways. And um certainly, but yes, there's no pressure to that. And sometimes I you know will tell students if they're kind of on the fence, well, go ahead and declare it because then it'll show on your audit and you can see what courses there are. And you know, you can of course every place is different, but you can kind of click on it and see what the different options are, and if those interest you, great. And it's a little more um helpful to be able to see what your options are versus just kind of looking in the general catalog or whatever. Right. But you certainly don't, as you're saying, you don't have to finish it. Right. And if you know, students kind of change things or drop things all the time, and that's fine, but at least kind of thinking about it and m looking into it ahead of time always minimizes the risk of kind of running out of time for something. Right. Um, but again, like even if you ended up just taking two or three courses and knew that it was something you're interested in, didn't have time to finish it because he came upon that a bit late, that's okay because it's you know another avenue for you to pursue in other ways.

SPEAKER_04:

And you can still talk about it when you have that interview or or not so much on your resume, but in the conversation. Well, you know, I uh I mean you don't have to say I started a minor and I couldn't finish it, but but you can say, well, I have I you know I focused some of my studies on and I really enjoyed learning about you know so you can still talk about it, and there is absolutely no shame in dropping a minor. I think again, students feel like, oh, I'm a failure if I didn't don't finish what I started. And and you just do it all the time. Yes. Um hopefully that helps you know everybody understand uh a little bit more about minors. And I think maybe a thought to end with is um for parents, having these conversations with your student is really fascinating because it's another way to get to know your student in a way you didn't before. And so you can, you know, you you be the mom advisor, you still send them to their academic advisor. Yes, definitely. But um, but you get to know your student. You oh really, why do you like that? What do you think? Well, how are you going to talk about that? And what what what's involved? What courses will you be taking? Right. And you really can learn.

SPEAKER_02:

No, it's so true. And I think just giving this your student permission to ask more about this, you know, to their visor, because I think most, you know, we we know what we know, and we don't really know when our students pick up on certain things or certain terms, or we assume they're getting information about it, which they probably are, and they probably aren't necessarily opening every email that they're getting or reading all the things. Yes. So, so kind of mentioning things just to give them some food for thought and then encouraging them to reach out to their advisor or to the people again in their world, whether it's career services or whatever the department, because and I went through this with both my boys, and they were, oh well, I don't want to bother them. Oh my goodness, you're not bothering them. That's what they're there for. And they want you to come, they want to hear from you, they want to know what you're interested in, they want to know how they they can help you. You're absolutely not bothering them. They can't help you if you don't open up about what you're kind of thinking, and you know, even if you don't even feel like you have any direction, that's fine. You go talk about your interests, talk about things you maybe you saw a flyer on and you're like, I don't even know what I don't even know what to ask about that because I don't know what that means. That's great. I can tell you more about that. You know, and and even some minors too, which folks aren't always aware of are interdisciplinary. So they might have, you know, a couple sociology courses with a psych course in there and a humanities course, you know, just very interesting that are much more um, you know, outside the box that students wouldn't even know about. So really just opening up and sharing with you know your advisor, and you can learn so much that you didn't even realize you didn't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So if parents can, you know, get that conversation started about minors and thinking about it and understanding, you know, what what it can do for you and how you go about it, um, I think that'd be great conversation with that.

SPEAKER_02:

Definitely, because anything you can say that can spark some thought and possible further conversation from your student is is wonderful. Right. Good.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, we hope this helped. We hope people you know have a little bit of understanding now. And uh we want to say thank you for joining us and being here with us. And if you know someone who might appreciate learning a little bit more about college, uh word of mouth is sometimes the best best way to pass pass on uh information about our podcast, and we appreciate that. So thanks for being here and for sharing, and we'll see you next time. Thank you so much.