College Parent Central Podcast
You don’t stop parenting the day you drop your student off to college on Move-in Day. Your role simply changes. (Actually, it’s not simple at all, but it changes.) You’re a parent for life. Join Lynn Abrahams and Vicki Nelson, higher education professionals and former college parents, as they explore the topics that can help you be a more effective and supportive parent to your college bound student. Whether you already have a child in college, college is still a year or more away, or your student is about to step out, start now to gather the information that empowers you to be an effective college success coach to your student.
College Parent Central Podcast
#140 – Promoting and Maintaining Good Mental Health in College: A Conversation with Dr. Sarah Olivo and Dr. Liz Seidler
The mental health landscape for college students has transformed dramatically in recent years, leaving many parents feeling unprepared and overwhelmed. In this episode, mental health experts Dr. Sarah Olivo and Dr. Liz Seidler join us to share their wisdom and their REACH framework (Realizing values, Elevating mental fitness, Acting with purpose, Creating healthy relationships, and Handling hard things wisely) designed specifically for today's college students’ mental fitness. Liz and Sarah also address the notorious "triple S triangle" of Sleep, Study, and Socializing that forces many students to sacrifice crucial aspects of wellbeing. Our conversation offers guidance on preparation before college, communication during separation, and recognizing warning signs that might indicate serious issues. Whether you're preparing to send your child to college or supporting them through current challenges, this episode provides compassionate, evidence-based strategies from experts who understand both the clinical landscape and the lived reality of today's college experience.
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Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast. Whether your child is just beginning the college admission process or is already in college, this podcast is for you. You'll find food for thought and information about college and about navigating that delicate balance of guidance, involvement and knowing when to get out of the way. Join your hosts, vicki Nelson and Lynn Abrahams, as they share support and a celebration of the amazing child in college.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast. This is the podcast where we talk about all kinds of things that have to do with parenting a student who is in college, who is thinking of or about to go to college, and sometimes even students who are finished with college. My name is Vicki Nelson and I am a professor of communication at a small liberal arts school and, more importantly, I'm the mother of three daughters who've all gone to college and they have come out the other side and we have all survived. So I come to this topic of college parenting, both as a parent and also as someone who works with college students every day and I see what they're talking about and struggling with and celebrating and all of those things. So I am here with several people today, but I'll begin with my co-host.
Speaker 3:Hi everyone. My name is Lynn Abrahams. I also come to this topic in two ways as a professional and as a parent. I'm a learning disability specialist. I have worked with college students my whole career college students who have a diagnosis of a learning difference and I've worked with their families and their parents. I'm also the mom of two sons who have gone in, out, through around college and they came out, went away, came back home, then went away again and now they're I think they're gone, I think they're launched and so very happy to be here to talk about all of this.
Speaker 2:No one ever follows a direct path anywhere.
Speaker 2:They're all in and out and around, and we're very excited today because we want to talk about a topic that is so important to so many, so many parents and students these days having to do with mental health, and we are here with two people who are experts in that area and who deal with it every day. So we're happy to share this podcast with Dr Sarah Olivo and Dr Liz Seidler, and I'm going to ask them to introduce themselves and tell us a little bit about a podcast that they have, and then we're going to get into the topic of mental health. So, sarah, you showed up first, so we'll start with you.
Speaker 5:Well, plus, you know, I'm the opener and Liz is the closer, so that works how?
Speaker 1:it goes.
Speaker 5:And so hi, I'm Dr Sarah Olivo and thank you for saying my name right. Usually people add an I like a whole other syllable, dr Olivo so I've learned to answer everything.
Speaker 5:It's fine. I am a licensed psychologist. I have a practice actually sort of anywhere. These days because of something called PSYPACT, you're able to practice in many different states. I also am licensed in New York and that's where a lot of my practice is. I worked there for a long time and trained there as well, and I also now live very recently in Nashville, tennessee.
Speaker 5:So I've just gotten to see that some of the college issues that come up are really really happening across the board. Right, these are all the colleges have some version of, I think, a new, or at least growing, if not new issue of making sure we're taking care of the mental health of these students, as well as the education of these students and the learning of these students. So, and then I can pass the baton over to my podcast co-host. But to say that we both started a podcast called College is Fine, everything's Fine a little tongue-in-cheek way of saying, yeah, it's fine, and sometimes it's like life where there's highs and lows right, there's, it's not blocked from that. Um, it doesn't have any sort of protective cover from things like stress and relationship issues and feelings of loneliness or overwhelm. So we really wanted to create a place for people to come and get some free, actionable tips, advice, and also to feel like they're not alone if or when they're feeling a struggle in the college journey.
Speaker 2:It always helps to have company and to know that you're not alone.
Speaker 4:Very well said Sarah.
Speaker 4:Yes, so I'm Dr Liz Seidler. I'm a licensed clinical psychologist. I have a private practice in Ridgefield, Connecticut, which is about an hour outside of New York City, and I specialize in evidence-based treatments, which is a big word of kind of saying treatments that are skills-based to help people regulate their emotions more effectively. I primarily work with teenagers and young adults and I've done a lot of school consultations and trainings and I feel really passionate about social-emotional learning across the lifespan and was very grateful to be introduced to Sarah through colleagues so that we can really join on this mission to reach a wider net than the four walls of our offices, and we're so grateful to be here today with you guys. We're excited to dive in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're glad to have you here and I think we wanted to start from basics. We want to start from ground zero, and there's so much talk these days about the importance of good mental health and that mental health is an issue for so many people, and especially the younger people in the world. So can you explain? What do we mean by good mental health? It's a term we use all the time, but I'm not sure we always understand what we're talking about.
Speaker 5:It's such a vague big word and there's a lot of hashtags around it and that I think oftentimes it can feel maybe like virtue signaling to say, hashtag mental health matters and things like that, so that what it can feel like is that there's, yes, maybe a lot of things being posted about it, but what's the meat behind that word?
Speaker 5:And, and Liz and I, after a couple of years of working in the field and a couple of years working on our podcast, I've tried to help create a simple way and kind of an acronym to remember the five core areas that we think are essential to not only picking you up if you're down, like if your mental health is struggling, to get you back into a place of well-being, right, where you feel like you're able to do the basics of day-to-day living without too much distress or without too much anguish or trouble.
Speaker 5:And then these skills also are things where, if you're having a really typical year, can help you boost towards your next step, get outside your comfort zone, take you to places that you feel like would be maybe exciting or innovating, but you might not consider. So how to create and get the most out of your college experience. So we hope that those five areas which, liz, if you want to what do we do? Go back and forth. You do RIDMTs, so we have five areas that we think are really essential to make this feel like it has a more concrete answer.
Speaker 4:I'm happy to talk about it and I think fitness is a good way to think about it. If you think about physical fitness, I think a lot of us are aware what do we need to do to be physically fit, but a lot of us one don't pay as much attention to mental fitness and we're not really sure what ingredients need to kind of be there. So this acronym is called REACH and really it is about reaching, you know, your best mental fitness. And when I think about that, it really is about like how do I like weather the storm of everyday life on campus more effectively, how do I reach my goals, how do I do it with more happiness and joy and how do I do it without getting into like a downward spiral? So the R in that reach is realizing your values right and paying attention to what are value-based actions that we want to make in college.
Speaker 4:Now, young adulthood is about finding your values right. A lot of kids don't know what their values are. They might adopt or take their values from their parents or their community in which they were raised. So it's actually a great time to pay attention to what are the things that are really important to me, and we know from science that when you act in line with your values and you pay attention to them, you actually are happier or more joyful. It's when we take kind of, these moves away from our values that lead to, let's say, a lot of guilt or shame or sadness. So that's the first step. Sarah, you want to get into the second one?
Speaker 5:Yeah, and the next one is elevating your mental fitness. So what are the ways you can, what are skills you can have to make sure you're feeling steady and set you up for the best success and having a good, positive or just a steady mood? And so one of those things is to make sure you're taking care of your physical health, and Liz and I always joke. We're like we know we're not creating a groundbreaking statement here. Everyone knows this. It's probably the most like yeah, no, kidding type of thing that we do, but it's also potentially the hardest to stay steady, especially in college. We talk about the triple S triangle of sleep, study versus socializing, and you can only use two Like.
Speaker 5:We kind of hear from college students that that's something they struggle with a lot, and so we really try to do is say okay at base. When people come into us and they are depressed or really you know their mood swings are high and low or some version of that, or they're struggling a lot in their friendships. Always, I start by saying can we just get the basics? How's your sleep? Are you eating okay? What's going on? Are you on social media a lot? Are you moving your body right? What are the things and most often the students have either not been doing that in a way that sets them up to be upset, or they've gotten upset and they've let some of that go. So we say, okay, let's at least start to get that's in your control right now. Um, so let's see if we can get your sleep Okay. Let's see if we can get your eating Okay, let's take some break from screens or let's do some editing of what you're looking at on social media and let's see, like, what are the ways that you feel build your energy? For some people it's just making sure you're walking to class, you know. For other people it's a specific exercise they need to do.
Speaker 5:It can range, but we always say at least start there, because we can't help you with some of the other more emotional or cognitive or thinking issues that might be getting in the way if you're also sleep deprived, et cetera. So that's one, and then the other is just being aware of some of the filters that your mind has. So can you see some of the what would you say, liz kind of like categories or filters that people can fall into? An example of one we see a lot in college is something called mind reading. So my professor is going to think I'm stupid if I ask him for help. We hear a lot. Or my roommate doesn't like me because she's not taking me, she didn't invite me to that party with her friends.
Speaker 5:So just a lot of things where people make these assumptions, they kind of have these thoughts that they consider facts right, and then they act on those as if they're facts, and then it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Speaker 5:So I don't ask my professor for help because he thinks I'm stupid and therefore I get more confused in class and I understand less and then I feel more confused. Or my roommate doesn't like me, she didn't invite me to that party with her friends, and so therefore if I go to lunch I'm less likely to have her. You know, see if she wants to come with me, and then it starts to divide the relationship more. And so what we really also try to have people realize is that we all have thoughts throughout the day. I think we have something like 80 to 90,000 thoughts a day and they're not facts, they're just a way of our mind trying to kind of it's like a ping pong ball, kind of like oh, it's kind of going and reacting to a lot of different situations. You can have two totally different thoughts in the same day and think that they're facts, depending on your mood, right? So just trying to separate them from some of their assumptions is the key to elevating your mental fitness.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'll just, and I'm mindful that we're like we're going through the whole thing. This is taking a long time. I'll just go through the next three kind of quickly. But A is acting with purpose, which is making sure that the behaviors you're engaging in on a college campus are in line with those values that you recognized in the R. And really helping people understand that how we behave is probably one of the most critical tools to our mood. That, if we really want to regulate certain mood states that we need to be really mindful that we're acting in a purposeful way in terms of our behavior. And this could be from you know whether you're you know getting out of bed and actually going to class, or how you handle urges to procrastinate. That those would be kind of critical skills for college students. To again this whole umbrella of mental fitness. And the C is about kind of how we create healthy relationships on a college campus. And I'll just say quickly, and then I'll let Sarah end with the age.
Speaker 4:I think that piece is what most college students are worried about right, like am I going to make friends? Who am I going to go to the dining hall with? Who am I going to have activities with. I want to broaden that in terms of mental health and our social support system. There are a lot of other people on a college campus besides people your age. I really feel strongly about relationships and mentorships with professors and other community members on a college campus and also, which I think is neglected a lot, we hear this a lot how do you navigate changes in your relationships with your family You're moving away and your social support system in high school? So creating and maintaining and sustaining these healthy relationships is, we know, our relationship world is really important to maintaining healthy mental health outcomes. And then, sarah, you want to talk about H, which is the last in the acronym. Yeah, sorry, I cut you off.
Speaker 5:Oh no, I jumped in Handling hard things wisely. So when things happen or you feel like you're in crisis, if you have a fight with a friend, if you have failed a test, right, sometimes we have thoughts that are unhelpful like, oh, I'm gonna fail that test and then that's one thing. But then what? If you do fail the test and it is a fact, suddenly, how do you take some actual problems that come up and use a systematic approach to it, tolerate some of the big emotions so that you don't react impulsively? Go through some problem-solving strategies that can help you feel like you have a stepwise plan for it, just some essential frustration or distress tolerance skills to get you out of that like really kind of big emotion mind, so that you can stay steady and, when some stressors inevitably happen, that it doesn't knock you off course too much.
Speaker 3:So you know I love this idea of talking about mental fitness and connecting it to physical fitness. It's something that people really get and understand. I'm curious about what kind of advice you would give parents who are maybe having. Maybe their kids are still home in high school and they're preparing for college. What kind of advice can you give them for how to improve, you know, mental health fitness?
Speaker 4:Oh, I have so many thoughts.
Speaker 3:I know this is a huge question. We could do a whole podcast. Did we say that this?
Speaker 2:podcast is going to be six hours long. I know I was going to say we can also say we have so many episodes.
Speaker 5:I know, we can promise we'll find something there, because it's big.
Speaker 4:I think, a couple of things that I'll say and then, sarah, you can chime in and I'm going to try to be succinct here because I think and working a lot with parents and I used to run like a parent of young adult group and a failure to launch group I think that there's a lot of accommodation that parents do for children and I have three kids of my own that hopefully I will be well prepared for this transition when they go to college, but I see it myself. So I want to be really understanding of the fact that it is easier to accommodate our kids than it is to actually help them develop their own self-management skills. So I really think that when I look at a lot of my caseload, which are kids who've had to take medical leave from college, I really think they lacked two things. I think they lacked self-management skills. There was a lot, and not just parents. I want to be clear. There's a lot of accommodating that happens within our school systems. So, as parents, I would be thinking about are there behaviors that my child has not learned that I could really work on doing some scaffolding and kind of pulling away while they're under my roof, and whether this means and I've said this so many times I had a parent who paid for a freshman roommate to wake their child up every single day. So whether it's your child's alarm clock, you know whether it means they've never done their laundry, which again is such a stressor I mean, there's so many stressors, even that is a big stressor, you know Whether they've never really curated their own nutritional plan, their meal plan, being able to like cook something, or you're writing emails to their high school teacher still for them, right? So I would think about can I increase self-management skills in my child?
Speaker 4:And then around some of these aspects about mental fitness and we know this, kids learn through modeling from a very young age. There are things that I'm really mindful of, you know, like do I take space for my phone and social media? Am I, are my child seeing me going out for a nightly walk, right? So I do think there are some things that we can encourage even around these areas, around like sleep and nutrition, et cetera, that not to get in a tug of war with your child, but I do think that there is some modeling around. What are some values that I can kind of instill, or priorities that we have as a family that my child is more likely to take with them to the transition and I really do.
Speaker 4:I think I see that a lot, particularly around sleep, eating and movement, that kids who are already kind of doing this and not in an extreme way at all, but like they're just more mindful about their sleep they're the ones that are saying no to like I went out Tuesday, wednesday, thursday. I think I'm gonna stay in on Friday night. They're the kids that really had some limits or structure and I think that came through again, not like this, like you know, like really disciplined household. I think that came through again, not like this like really disciplined household. I think it was through modeling.
Speaker 3:Excellent ideas, good.
Speaker 2:I do just want to say you will not be prepared when it's your own child, I know.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Trust me, I'm already not prepared as a parent.
Speaker 2:It's entirely different.
Speaker 3:Yes, it is.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and so much is. These things are so much easier said than done, because you still even if, yes, it is the social aspect of how they get support outside of the home and starting to encourage or have conversations with them about which friend would be a good person to talk to about this you know a lot of times when they're in school and that person might be away and you know parents. I think we can all admit we actually don't know a lot of what it's like to have a post on Instagram that someone shared that made you look foolish. I've never had that. We didn't have social media growing up. You know who knows what that's like, is their peers.
Speaker 5:So I think a lot of it is sort of saying, oh, you know, wow, what they come to you with a problem or complaint. Socially helping and supporting them, of course, right, but that might look a little different as you're getting closer to school where you might start to say here's my take. But do you have a friend who understands this, or a teacher that you trust or you know? Is there someone who is a little older in your class, a classmate or a coach who you feel like could be helpful here? Because I you know, in admitting like I want to help. I'm here to help you, and someone else might have a real sense of what they've done in the past about this. So I think it's allowing them and helping them look towards what are the appropriate folks in their life who can help them through something difficult, and not feeling like it's all the burden of the parent to be the one problem solver.
Speaker 3:And I think that when, when kids go to college, things do shift in terms of that relationship with parents as well, and you know so. So what kind of advice would you have for parents when their kids are across the country? You know and, and perhaps you know, they feel like they're suffering you know, and they still want to be supportive. But they're not prepared to do it, and you?
Speaker 5:don't actually maybe have a sense of how bad it is. You know, sometimes, you know, I've definitely worked with people who or even students, it's like sometimes they're going to call the parent and leave a voicemail or send a sort of a text being like I failed this class, oh my God, and they're really dysregulated, and the parent gets that message maybe an hour later because they've been in a meeting or something. And then they're trying to call their child and the person's, you know, by that point they've talked to a few other friends and they're fine, and the parent's, like, freaking out, can't get ahold of them, you know so.
Speaker 5:So part of it, I think, absolutely proactively, before heading out, or maybe when the the student comes home saying can we just talk a little bit about how we're going to communicate this Right, and so I know that's not going to be something where, once you have that conversation, everything falls into place and it's easy, but at least having a game plan, being like hey, if something's really bad, um, let's have like a you know, an SOS. That means mom, get on the plane or dad get on the plane and come get me Right. So let's have some code for if it's really difficult. And also, please share with me these other troubling times. Um, and you know, if you do that, it's really nice for you to let me know if you're okay, if or when you're okay, because I won't assume you're okay until you update me.
Speaker 5:The other thing is the one who doesn't share. And so how do you? You're doing a lot of guessing. So sometimes you have, like the person who shares every difficulty and then forgets to say, oh, but, by the way, I had this great time with my friends too, so it balanced out. And sometimes you have the person who holds it all in, and so the parent is guessing a lot, and so for them I would say, if you find that the student isn't giving a lot of detail, right, if you're like hey, what'd you do this weekend? Nothing. Now, sometimes, look, sometimes it's like that's just been your kid from day one.
Speaker 5:Right, so you're like OK, that's just been your kid from day one, right? So you're like, okay, that's what I'm going to get.
Speaker 5:And I think, especially as mothers to many children, we know some of our kids might be really great communicators and some of our kids have been like the fine. You know we say proof of life. You know they give you the thumbs up emoji and you're like, all right, they've been like that from day one. But if you've noticed a shift and suddenly they're not sharing as much or they're giving vague examples or they're not talking about a story where they've been doing something going to looking at into a new club or going to a party or hanging out with their friends on at lunch, right, so maybe talking with them about, hey, listen, I don't hear a lot of detail here, so it just makes me want to do a bit more of a check-in. How are you doing? You know so.
Speaker 5:Do we need to have a quick parent visit just to come and see her early? Hey, you've been texting let's, let's schedule a FaceTime. You know, I kind of want to see your face. Let's, let's take, let's take a look where we can see how you're doing so much stuff. Can we do a FaceTime? The other thing that I think is important is some sense of oh gosh, it just went right into my head.
Speaker 4:I had this great idea as I was talking and now it's gone, liz, if you talk, it'll probably come back to me.
Speaker 4:Okay, I have two things I'll say quickly. One you know, we recently did a talk and a parent was saying there's this pressure on parents that their kids you know, of course it's like they get into college. We're like, finally we got in and they're so proud and that their kid needs to be thriving in college. And I think one piece of advice I would give to parents is to be honest about their experience that their child is having so that they can get support from other parents. Parents are the best resource for each other. Someone has gone through something that you've gone through. Their child has gone through something. So I think, in order for us to regulate our own distress and anxiety about our child, that we need support in that, and doing it alone, I really think, leads to sometimes worse outcomes for our students that an anxious parent is likely going to act in a way that is probably going to lead to a negative outcome with their child, whether that means that there's going to be withholding of information or there's going to be more accommodation, whatever it might be. And the second thing I would say and Sarah kind of alluded to this we called a lot of our recent talks and some of the work that we're doing about why is mine on campus? And I really encourage parents and this doesn't just have to be the summer before freshman year to really have a plan that does not devise an emotion about what we're going to do. Like, are we having check-ins? Some families really that's we want to check in, hear how you're doing with your grades. Some parents really want to see what your grades are.
Speaker 4:I have no judgment about what choices families are going to make. My judgments as a clinician come when people, in emotion, make really impulsive decisions on both ends. So having a plan about, like, what is our level of communication going to be? Like, how frequent is it going to be? Am I going to have life whatever 360 thing on, and seeing that you're in your dorm nonstop and never leaving and therefore my anxiety is going through the roof, that you're unhappy. So I really think that having a plan about how are you going to communicate and what contingencies, which I think are reasonable I think a lot of times the contingencies come after there's a crisis and I'd rather than them be there ahead of time, because they might actually prevent a crisis from potentially happening. And I think it also helps regulate parental anxiety because there is a plan in place. You know, particularly for the kids that are really far away, that they can't just, you know, hop in a car and see their kid in a few hours.
Speaker 5:I remembered what I was going to say. Can I still add it?
Speaker 3:Absolutely Go for it.
Speaker 5:I also think that I don't want to say it's only first semester, right, but I definitely think that parents should have a wide range of potential normal reactions to first semester, which is going to be different than something that might happen junior year. The reason is because it's so much more normal for people to feel lonely, overwhelmed. I can't do this, and then parents get very anxious about it because their child you know, and I'll talk to friends you know clients, what have you, as you can imagine, with the College Mental Health Podcast, people share their stories with us all the time. So we have a lot of data to say that most parents are getting texts from their insert.
Speaker 5:Any type of student, right? The person who went to a great school as a seemingly great group of friends and as a starter on their baseball team where they got a scholarship, who are coming home or calling them and saying I'm really lonely and they're panicked like what. I never expected this. This kid has never been lonely. It's like, well, it's more typical to be lonely and struggle a little bit in the first semester than not in some way because they've left their comfort zone, and so that's the other thing I'll say is some of this advice I want to say give a wide range of grace for you and your student for that first semester-ish, as they're getting settled, because they'll come home for either Thanksgiving or Christmas, typically, or the holiday break, and that's when you can sort of regroup and be like, okay, first semester down, where are you doing? Okay, where can we help. And that's a nice time to feel like, okay, what went well with our communication.
Speaker 5:Where can we change things up?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah, it's so difficult to try to normalize these things and when you're at a distance it's even increased. I think you know you've talked a lot about some of the struggles and the barriers students have. I love your REACH acronym. That is so inclusive. It seems to cover a lot of and even some of the strategies I know. Lynn, when you and I were talking earlier, you were wondering and wanted to ask a question about COVID.
Speaker 3:Oh, I'm curious to know, since you're working with students all the time, what are some of the trends that you're seeing? Are there particular changes you've seen since COVID? Are there particular changes you've seen based on the current, uh, sort of political climate? Um, you know, so trends, that's sort of my, my question I have an answer to that.
Speaker 5:Liz, do you?
Speaker 4:I do, but if you want to go first, no, no, I just was making sure um, I'll start with one trend I think is important and it's also like a subspecialty of mine, you know, I think it would be hard to talk about mental health on college campuses and not talk about like rises in suicide rates. So I do think that there is. That is just a fact. I mean, there was a recent one recently in upstate New York, here right before graduation graduation.
Speaker 4:So I think a trend is that mental health and they would say this since COVID for sure that college counseling centers are overwhelmed, they're understaffed and there are not enough resources for college students and that there are high rates of anxiety and depression that if you look at like the top, some of the top three reasons for that are like financial stress, also the forecast just in the country in terms of like economical, the political climate, the cultural kind of shifts and changes, climate change.
Speaker 4:So there is a lot of like existentialist, depresso-typic stuff that I see that college used to be like a time of like excitement on college campuses and there are a lot of real realities that college students are facing that I did not face on a college campus. So I would say that that is definitely a trend, that there is more need for mental health support than actually exists, and it concerns me the most in areas that are really rural, right and my hope and put you know, with site packed for psychologists and some telehealth companies, to figure out how can we reach a lot of colleges that aren't in more urban settings where there are more, you know, access to, let's say, more therapists.
Speaker 5:So that's my thoughts, yeah, and I think that something I see a lot is people forgetting that they had two years of atypical communication development education and so then holding themselves to some high standard and forgetting that there's a lot of people out there who because of that, might not have, you know, they lost two years of problem solving a social situation, of having to attend in class, and so trying to say to them let's at least I'm not saying that's everything that's happening right now, but can we at least have that be a puzzle piece that you put in to why it might be difficult to take four classes at a time and manage that? Because you had two years of your high school experience where most likely there was a lot more accommodation of you know, less pressure to do certain assignments, et cetera, like that's a long time in your life, that's a big percentage of your life where you weren't learning those skills. So even sometimes young adults are coming out being like, oh, I just can't believe that I don't have my career going where it's supposed to. It's like hold on, the world was on pause for two years, you know. So it's not to say it's currently the reason they're upset, but I do see and have to remind people of that, to help them say, like, let's reframe this and that you're still, you know, you're still potentially playing some catch up there. And the other thing I see outside of you know, of course there's the big. I mean that's the most important part we want. We want them to be alive. That's the basic minimum, and they can't do any of this if they're feeling suicidal. That has got to be the number one thing we take care of.
Speaker 5:I also see, in smaller ways, people not willing to go to a dance with someone because they share. That person shared a post which was a different political belief or different sides of the Palestinian and Israeli conflict. Right, where it's sort of like, wow, we have to double down our you know it's talking about values, right, like we have to double down and have every decision made based on my political beliefs or my other. You know, so it's. That is not something that I think happened prior to both the rise of social media and the polarization of our political cycle and our 24-hour news cycle.
Speaker 5:So I'm working a lot with people saying, all right, like, is it, what value is going to guide your choice?
Speaker 5:It's okay to choose the value of this person's really fun and I want to go and have a fun time dancing with this person and they're friends with my friend group, that is okay to choose that value too. That there's pros and cons to making having this experience feel like it's bipolar and is there a middle path we can have? And if they're saying like, no, this is who I am as a person, I'm like great, as long as, as long as that is an identified reason you're doing it, versus pressure from other friends to do you know so that's what we try to look at. A lot, too, is back to that. Realizing your values of saying is, if this is who you are and you know it to be true, then that should be what you decide. But if it feels like pressure from other people to or or you know your friend group, or so on and so forth, can you push past some of those should thinking and those decisions?
Speaker 3:Yeah, the more I hear you guys talk, the more I realize how important the work is you're doing. Students need support in all different areas, and you are doing that. It does concern me that there's not enough support on campuses support on on campuses.
Speaker 2:yeah, and, and I think you know you've done a really good job of of helping us understand what some of the struggles are, um, that students have in the areas that you know are going to lead toward that more mental fitness, um, and the, and then those barriers of resources and all. But I'm wondering what kinds of things prevent students from seeking help? It's one thing when they're seeking help on campus and they can't get it because there aren't enough resources or whatever, but it seems as though there are students who need support and help but they don't reach out for it.
Speaker 2:What gets in the way.
Speaker 4:I can start with this. So one I want to be clear that we know, in terms of treatment seeking for psychotherapy, females seek treatment more than men. So I just want to say that there is a big difference there in terms of mental health seeking. You know treatment seeking behavior, and you know Sarah and I talk about this and we've gone to some conferences that are. You know there's this organization called Active Minds which is on every college campus. It's a mental health like awareness group that you know and I know we're talking about a lot of negatives.
Speaker 4:One of the reasons I love working with young adults and just this generation. I'm like, oh my gosh, if they have a cause that they are into, they are into it, right, and they are waving the flag and they're doing everything. So I want to say that there has been a lot of progress and definitely in the time that I've been a psychologist, around trying to destigmatize mental health and making and making like taking care of your mental health cool, right. Um, there are things college students are doing that I never did, like I was not making smoothies, I was not working out in college and I was definitely not having like a coded color, like planner, right. So, like I, um, they are making a lot of steps to, and a lot of celebrities and just people in the zeitgeist like really are prioritizing mental health and talking about it. I think we need to do more of that. I think it needs to be an everyday conversation, the same way that I would tell you that I got a flat tire this morning, and I definitely think amongst men that and we also know that those are the people that tend to be successful in terms of committing suicide they tend to use more lethal means. So I think part of it is talking about you know your mental health struggles more openly.
Speaker 4:And then I think the second another barrier I mean we talked about it earlier, but I do think that is means financial means. There is a class barrier. When you look at college counseling centers, you likely go for an intake and then you're referred into the community. If you don't have insurance or you don't have money, you likely and if that person is available, everyone has wait lists it's gonna be really hard for you to get mental health treatment.
Speaker 4:Um, so I do think that, though that is a significant barrier to think about, what are some like low-cost methods that we can kind of get kids who need it. Um, as well, as I do think that there still is, you know, this idea, that you know it's challenging to kind of admit and be vulnerable that you're having difficulty, and I definitely think in college, sarah and I talk about this last thing I'll say is that, like everyone has this idea, it's like the four best years of your lives, right, and I think there is this enormous pressure to be happy in college and really embrace your freedom, and so sometimes I think it's an obstacle to kind of admit like, oh, this is not as going as well as I thought it was going to be going.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I also think that, instead of there's, there's two ways that we need to address it from my perspective. One is we need to say how can we make it more of a normal part of the conversation so that people who need access to mental health have it. And that's a big reason why we started our podcast, right? We're like, hey, that's the most private place it can be, it's in your phone and your headphones and no one knows what you're listening to. Isn't that a great way if you want to seek this kind of help, to get it without feeling like you have to walk into a counseling center, which typically is a big barrier. Right? Someone has to see me enter a building that is labeled as the counseling center? Under no circumstances, right?
Speaker 5:I think the other part is realizing that a lot of people in these kids' lives or these students' lives can be therapeutic even if they're not a therapist, finding a supportive coach or a professor who supports them and saying how can we equip them with some more awareness? And I know a lot of times on college campuses, for the people who are really thinking about this are saying let's talk about from the top down. How are we creating a positive mental health experience for these students so they have access to easy ways to move their body. They have access to better nutrition right, it doesn't just need to be that they need to go get therapy. But how can we create an environment where our RAs are a little bit more attuned to validating someone or checking in, if they see it? So the college campuses, I think, that are doing the best job, are not just creating really nice counseling centers, they're trying to figure out how to create a more mental health awareness across more people in their in that environment.
Speaker 2:That makes good sense yeah, it does of spreading it around and and it's. It's good for parents to know that too, that, um, that you know. Back to what you were talking about earlier.
Speaker 2:It doesn't have to be all on me as as parent, that there are those I don't know what you could call it sort of intermediary. I mean there's a counseling center and I hope my student will take advantage of that if they need it, but that there may be other sources of that kind of support as well, and I mean we could. There's so many more questions we want to ask and we can keep going.
Speaker 2:You know, short of a six hour episode, we, you know we may want to do a part, pick your brains, but in the, in the meantime, you know, when we're talking about those other sources of uh, of support that are out there, um, one of them is your podcast, and I think I also read or heard that you, you are work, working on or have some kind of program, and maybe I'm outing you about that sooner than you want it but tell.
Speaker 2:But tell us a little bit more about how your podcast helps students. And then, what do you have coming up that people might want you to know about?
Speaker 5:figure out a way so that people, if they don't want to listen to just hours and hours of us over the course of a two-year podcast, let's put that information into a course using those five core areas called REACH so that we can say, okay, so yes, we've chatted about them here, but what does that look like in practice?
Speaker 5:How can you personalize that to you? And so creating some more lessons and didactics. And so we have groups that we form, that we can do sort of small groups. So we're also working on getting it out TBD when this will happen, but we're going to certainly create a course that's on demand as well. So I think the other part is, you know, we are trying to write a book as well for fit therapists or high school counselors or parents to use so that they can say, all right, as we are sending our students, slash babies, senior off into the world. You answer your questions. What are the different areas where we can start to build some of these skills or send them off in a way that allows them to be ready from the outset versus reacting to it. Ready from the outset versus reacting to?
Speaker 4:it Bad, yeah. So those are the ways to think about it.
Speaker 5:But there's always, you know there's, I think, a lot of it too, I would say, is talk to your, talk to your kid, you know. Talk to your senior to say what's the way that you like to do it. Some people are readers, some people are podcast listeners. Some people want to have it be an audio book, other people are big talkers, right, so it's the great news is now that there is something for everybody. It's just a matter of finding it and then saying, okay, let's map out how you're going to get access to those resources when you're not at home.
Speaker 5:So, if it's the counseling center, how do you go there? Where's the website? If it's, I want to have a couple of books on hand, or let's put those in your Kindle, and et cetera. And so, seeing the way that not assuming that the way you appreciate getting that help is the same way that your child wants to get help and saying, okay, let's figure out the way you wanna do it. Do you wanna go talk to your coach? Do you wanna have a couple of podcast episodes on hand? Do you just wanna have me on speed dial on Sundays to do check-ins? It's gonna vary by each person.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I'll just say quick oh, I was going to say quickly and we just did a live podcast with a local high school and that'll be out in August, before the school year, with former high school students who are currently in college and kind of presenting on our guide as well as asking questions about like the specifics in the reach guide and like what were the difficulties they had and struggles. And our hope is to do more of that so that we can really get in the community to those, you know, seniors, before they leave the building, so that they have, you know, my hope some knowledge, a little resiliency before they head off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that all goes back to having that plan, that contingency plan of of of what you might do that you hope you never need, right, right. So so listening to your podcast is um really important and um so let me ask you to reach you Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I was going to let me ask you one more question, and then I want you to give us the little list of how people can reach you and where to find you and all of that. But our other question that we often like to ask is some people are readers, especially parents. Not so much the kids these days, but a lot of parents Are there particular. I mean, your book is not out yet, you're still working on it, so we can't point people to that yet. But are there other sources or books that you would recommend?
Speaker 5:Yeah, for sure, and what we can do is because we could particularly like rattling it off the top of our heads might feel, you know. As for people furiously writing, down Right, right We'd be happy to give you a list if you want to put it in your show notes.
Speaker 2:We'll do that, okay, so we'll add a list of other resources to the show notes and then just tell us and we will also add it to the show notes. How can people reach you if they want to or listen to the podcast or find you?
Speaker 5:I know Liz has a harder stop than me. You go first.
Speaker 4:Okay, really quickly. I know the book and I'm going to forget it how to Navigate Life. It's from Boston College, professor Bell Lang. It's wonderful, and they have a curriculum within Boston College that's based upon this to kind of find meaning and purpose in your life and choosing a career, et cetera. My private practice is CBT of Ridgefield. It's wwwcbtridgefieldcom. Sarah and I are at collegesfinepodcastcom collegesfinepodcastgmailcom. Um, we're on every platform that you can listen to a podcast on, and we're recently launching our youtube, which will have our faces. Um, so we we know that a lot of college students watch and listen to podcasts, apparently on youtube yeah, see, we're learning too.
Speaker 5:we're, you know, it's like the college people, a lot younger and smarter than you. And then I am, like I said, I'm in Nashville, tennessee, and it's drsaraholivocom. We are always happy to hear from anyone, whether it's a student who needs some help, some parents who have some questions or someone who just wants to get a little bit more information and be a guest on our show.
Speaker 2:Okay, great Thank you. So we will put all of that in the show notes and thank you so much for having us so much information with us today, and we'll hear from you again down the line.
Speaker 5:Sounds wonderful. Thanks so much.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for coming.