College Parent Central Podcast
You don’t stop parenting the day you drop your student off to college on Move-in Day. Your role simply changes. (Actually, it’s not simple at all, but it changes.) You’re a parent for life. Join Lynn Abrahams and Vicki Nelson, higher education professionals and former college parents, as they explore the topics that can help you be a more effective and supportive parent to your college bound student. Whether you already have a child in college, college is still a year or more away, or your student is about to step out, start now to gather the information that empowers you to be an effective college success coach to your student.
College Parent Central Podcast
#124 – Looking Back at 2024 and Season 5 of the College Parent Central Podcast
This is the time of year when we reflect on the year and another season of the College Parent Central podcast. It’s been a busy year for all of our cohosts, Vicki, Lynn, Elizabeth and Sarah. It’s always fun to get all of us together to share thoughts and stories, but our schedules just wouldn’t allow that to happen this year. So Vicki had a conversation with each of our cohosts and we share those conversations in this episode. We take a look at what’s happening in higher education, our favorite book/article/podcast recommendations for parents, and we offer some New Year’s resolutions for parents and students. It’s time to look back – and to look ahead. Can’t wait to get started on Season 6!
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Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast. Whether your child is just beginning the college admission process or is already in college, this podcast is for you. You'll find food for thought and information about college and about navigating that delicate balance of guidance, involvement and knowing when to get out of the way. Join your hosts as they share support and a celebration of the amazing experience of having a child in college.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast. This is the place where we talk about everything that has to do with parenting a student who's in college parenting students who are thinking about college and getting ready for college, sometimes even those students who are finishing up college and launching out into the world. My name is Vicki Nelson and I am one of the co-hosts of this podcast. I'm the parent of three daughters and also a college professor of communication, so I work with students all the time who are in college, and this is a little bit of a different episode. Today. This is the final episode of 2024 and the final episode of season five of the College Parent Central podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm here by myself, but I have three co-hosts and our hope for this episode was that we could all get together and talk a little bit about what's happened over the last year and what we're looking forward to next year. But we are very busy people and it was impossible for us to all find the same time in our schedules of teaching and working with students and the things that we do to all be together. So what we have done is had some separate conversations. I spoke for a few minutes with each of my co-hosts and asked them to look backward and forward, and I'm going to share with you today those conversations. So I talked first to Elizabeth Hamblett and we will hear from her, and then I had a chat with Lynn Abrahams to hear a little bit about what she was thinking, and finally with Sarah Shane, and then at the end, I'll throw in my two cents about a couple of thoughts. So we hope you enjoy a chance to look back and think about what we're seeing in the world of higher education and to think about what might be ahead.
Speaker 2:So here we are, finally getting together to touch bases a little bit, and I'm here with Elizabeth Hamblett to talk a little bit about the past year. We're doing this in little bits and pieces because we're all so busy. We're doing this in little bits and pieces because we're all so busy we haven't been able to find a time when four co-hosts could be online at the same time. So individual conversations. Elizabeth, how are you?
Speaker 3:I'm okay. It has been a long semester, Vicki. How?
Speaker 2:are you? Yeah Well, it's really not fair to ask anybody who works in higher ed how you are about three weeks before the end of the semester, because we never have anything good to say at that point.
Speaker 3:It's not our best time.
Speaker 2:And it's. You know it's hard for me to realize that it has been almost a full year since we put together this little group of co-hosts to work together, put together this little group of co-hosts to work together, and it's also it's the end of the calendar year getting close, but not the end of the academic year, so we kind of have funny, funny things going on. But I thought it might be. You know, it's always fun to reflect a little bit about what the past year has been and think a little bit about ahead and kind of what messages. So what do you think In the past year-ish, have you seen any trends? You've worked with students and I know you do these webinars and workshops and things for parents. Are you hearing any messages or seeing what's happening? What's going on?
Speaker 3:What is going on? That's a good question. I think it's a couple of things and they're sort of big out there. I do think that maybe you know, frankly, the price of college and you know the exhaustion I think a lot of students are feeling, it seems and this is just anecdotal that maybe there isn't as much in some places of this feel like, oh my gosh, you've got to go right away and you know, there, there isn't any time to wait, I don't know. So maybe it's just the the, the sort of corners of the internet that I'm in.
Speaker 3:You know, I don't really work. I don't. I don't work with families In my professional community of college disability services. Folks In my professional community of college disability services folks, I do think, understand themselves to be required to now set up hybrid learning environments, you know, for students who would like that and you know, again, there are probably some anecdotes about places where that's happening but even for students with disabilities, it's not necessarily something that we have to, you know, now provide, and so there's some tension there about, you know, students having gotten used to a certain amount of flexibility. I think I see that with deadlines.
Speaker 3:You know, and again I even hear this about, you know, students without disabilities, neurotypical students, having gotten used to just kind of having as much time as they need. So is it growing pains, would we call it? I'm not really sure, but it's a return to sort of previous business practices, maybe with some adjustments.
Speaker 2:Well, I wonder how flexible we're going to be. You know, we being on the other side of the desk, so to speak. You know, as you talk about deadlines, you know, are we going to get them to understand that deadlines mean deadlines or are we going to start to be a little more flexible with our deadlines? We'll see. It always surprises me when I'm talking to students in my classes that these students that are coming in now were in middle school for COVID. So it hit them at a very different time in their lives than the ones we've had in the last couple of years who lost their last year or two of high school. And you know, I wonder, as you're talking about people thinking, you know maybe about gap years and that, whether we're going to also start to feel the effects of students who opt out of college altogether and more trade schools or non-degree professionals of some kind.
Speaker 3:We'll see, you know, and it may be just like the smart people, like the professionals that I'm listening to and reading who are talking about this. So you know, I think, listen we know a lot more about the development of the brain than we did back in the 80s when.
Speaker 3:I was in college and there are people and I have worked with some of them who maybe start college at traditional age and it doesn't work out well and come back after their prefrontal cortex is fully developed. So I'm always sort of standing here thinking, well, a gap year is great, but boy, wouldn't it be better if we waited for the brain to mature even more before all of our students kind of head into this? And I think too, mental health continues to be a theme among, you know, adults and college students. So learning how to take care of ourselves, and obviously there are still a lot of communities where there's a lot of social pressure to go to college. Go to the one of the 50 colleges anybody's ever heard of with very high rejection rates, and so you know, hoping, hoping, those forces sort of talk to each other, so to speak.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, we'll see in a year what we're saying about, about next year, Right? So then the other question, of course, because we always like to talk about books and podcasts, because we think podcasts are a good thing, Are there any? You know, thinking about what's out there now, what you've read books, articles, podcasts. If you could recommend one or two things right now for parents, what would they be?
Speaker 3:Well, I think you know, focused on this notion, I've been talking about trying to take a more considered approach to college admissions, even though it's not necessarily about college. I am just such a huge fan of the Self-Driven Child by Ned Johnson and Bill Stixrud. No matter what your kid is planning to do after college, I just think it's such good guidance about how to support your student and help them develop their confidence and competence. And I just love this book. I talk about it all the time. You know helps parents kind of understand what causes anxiety in themselves and their students and, you know, take it a different approach.
Speaker 3:I love Bright Kids who Couldn't Care Less by my friend, ellen Broughton, and that's B-R-A-A-T-E-N. She's a psychologist who studies processing speed and in writing her previous book about students called Bright Kids who Can't Keep Up, she noticed that when looking at students with processing speed problems she was also noticing problems with motivation. And you know I always think of her book and Ned's as sort of cousins, if you will, as far as talking about how you know, being parents who respond to a lack of motivation by coming down even harder isn't really the right approach to this. So that's a great book and, as always if we're talking about parents of high school seniors, got to get Harlan Cohen's Naked Roommate in there and he's got a version just for parents too. That's a classic it is. It's so good and you know.
Speaker 3:Then listen to Harlan's podcast. Ned has his own podcast. Ellen appears on a lot of them. You know there's just so many good people out there. Rick and Brennan Barnard have their Truth About College Admissions podcast that I think you know. They have a wonderful book by the same name and it's. They interview various professionals and kind of try to provide a peek behind the scenes of the admission process and also remind people that there's sort of there's a college for everybody and the importance of fit and match.
Speaker 2:So we will put the list, everybody's list, in the show notes. Yeah, Cause I think one of the things in all of these books in in reading them, whichever one's appeal, and that people pick up is really just realizing that they're not alone. People pick up is really just realizing that they're not alone. I remember reading years ago when Jeffrey Arnett came out with the emerging adulthood and that idea that you know, there's this new phase between adolescence and adulthood that goes up to age from like 18 to 27. And I just I remember reading the book and saying he knows my kids.
Speaker 2:I think he interviewed my kids for this book because it was so exactly on the mark and it really opened up my eyes and helped me realize, oh, what's going on in our family, what's going on with my kids is a thing, it's real. So I think you know that's part of why we like to recommend books all the time for parents. So, because this is coming out right around New Year's, a little before New Year's, Everybody's thinking about resolutions. If you could give one New Year's resolution to parents of high school or college students, what would it be?
Speaker 3:I think it would be to you know, remind yourself that it's going to be okay. Remind yourself that it's going to be okay. I think that you know, and you know for some parents and their students it may not be okay, whatever it is. You know whether they're struggling at college right now, but that that moment that they're in right now is probably not predictive of your students entire life. You know, you and I I think both probably talked to a lot of students over many years who sometimes have difficulty getting started and they come back and things are better. Or you know people who just barely made it through and went on to find something that they really like. But life is long and that is that the good news or the bad news.
Speaker 3:I think we put so much pressure on these four years and you know it's not the world, at least of our parents, where you get out of college and you go to a job and you're in that job for 35 years and, ha ha, you get a pension when you retire.
Speaker 3:You know that world doesn't exist, and so I think students are getting smarter about realizing they don't know what they want to do, and I think we need to allow them some space to figure that out, or recognize that the first job that they have out of college you know which then for some people is all about the major that they take is not going to be probably the job that they stay in.
Speaker 3:And you know it's hard to say that because this podcast host once said this and it really stuck with me the cost of college is life altering, and so this is a very expensive education that we're talking about. But you know, to the point of a lot of the people that I follow, you know and read, there are lots and lots of colleges and they're not all as expensive as some others, and so, if that is a concern, those are discussions to have. But you know, 18 is so, so young, and it's to say to these young people oops, sorry, you need to figure out now what you want to do. What's your passion? I mean, yikes, most people don't have a passion ever, and the passion they have at 18 might not even be the same one they have at 19.
Speaker 2:Yes, or 20 or 21. And so many change majors over and over again and that's fine. So you maybe have already kind of said it I was going to ask you if you had a resolution you would give to students, but I think you kind of doubled up there. As parents are thinking about the long road, for students to also think about that long road and not put the pressure on themselves, unless there's something else you would tell students to resolve for the new year.
Speaker 3:No, and I think that message too, of it's going to be okay, it's going to be okay, it's a good one you know it's a good one.
Speaker 3:It's lots of. You know. There may be comfort in knowing a lot of people start and and don't keep going from that moment of of starting but come back to it or find something else, and so I think things can feel so, you know, monumental, like I've made this choice and this is the thing I have to do, and then I have to commit to that and that's what I'm locked into and I just don't think life is that rigid anymore if it ever was, and perhaps it's just because I'm speaking as somebody who started wanting to be an English teacher and then they weren't hiring English teachers, even after I got my master's degree, and then I started doing something else and then I went back to school, so I'd got a special ed degree and then I started working at a college. So I mean, my path was very, very windy and I love what I'm doing now. It didn't always, but you know, over time there were things that I did that weren't as much fun as what I enjoy doing now. But, like it's okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we all really have those paths. I remember one time we had a career fair at the school. You know all of these employers came in and set up their tables and you know it was a packed gym and, as you do at these things, everybody had a name tag on. But they had everybody put their name on and what their college major was, and it was so funny to see how many people had this major that had absolutely nothing to do with what they were doing at the time.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, good advice. So last thing, just to think about what are you looking forward to next year, again, personally, professionally, who are you hoping to talk to and learn from, or what do you want to do?
Speaker 3:Well, you and I have started you know, started before this conversation a list that I think we'll just keep our little secret for now, but we have some good ideas for who to talk to next for the podcast. I've been thinking about taking up knitting. Oh, I know, I think it could help take me off of doom scrolling, give me something to do with my hands while I watch TV. So I have concerns about what a knitted object that I would create would look like.
Speaker 2:So next time I see you I should, I'll see this wonderful new sweater, or scarf, at least.
Speaker 3:Maybe a potholder that does or does not have four even sides. I would like to set that bar really low. I will continue my baguette baking journey. I'm still trying to work out the kinks with the first batch being nicely browned and subsequent ones not. So send in your recommendations, folks. Okay.
Speaker 2:And then, when you get that baguette process down, we need to put a picture in the podcast newsletter that we send out every month so that we can see. Lynn has a couple of times shown off her sourdough bread and I had one of my sourdough bread, so we'll be the bread baking college parent central people.
Speaker 3:I would like to be the person who makes everybody feel a lot better about themselves and more comfortable about failures.
Speaker 1:So that would be my role.
Speaker 2:Well, my sourdough does that for everybody. So, we're fine. That's great. It's good to talk to you and see you and you know, in a little more casual context than when we are doing a formal podcast interview and and wish you happy holidays.
Speaker 3:Thank you and to you too, looking forward to new ideas for next year.
Speaker 2:Can't wait. Hi Lynn, hi Vicki, here we are again. We're talking individually this year because it's great to have four co-hosts all working on the podcast, but getting four of us in one place at a time it doesn't work. But, lynn, it dawned on me this is the fifth year in review that you and I are doing that you and I are doing Unbelievable it is.
Speaker 5:I still remember you talking me into this and I wasn't sure, but you talked me into it and there we went, and the rest is history.
Speaker 2:We've been at it for five years. I never would have believed it. And this is episode 124.
Speaker 5:Unbelievable, so fabulous.
Speaker 2:It's a lot of episodes, that's a lot of information, it's a lot of really interesting and fun conversations that we've been able to have. So what we're doing this year is kind of doing some individual year in review and thinking about what's past, what's coming up, kind of, you know, trying to have the conversations be a little bit similar. So I mean, this is almost like I'm interviewing you. This is very strange. I did do that one time for the episode that we had on executive function, which was so interesting. I learned so much from you. So, since this is year in view, yep.
Speaker 1:I'm ready Looking back?
Speaker 2:Yeah, looking back. What do you think? Do you have a takeaway from the past year or an observation of things happening in higher ed, or what you've seen or heard in working with students? The trends, I don't know. What do you think?
Speaker 5:Well, you know, first of all, you know, things are definitely different for me personally. Personally, I'm not full-time anymore, working at Curry College, I know, and I have stepped back and I'm working with some individual families. So it's a different world for me. But I do see, especially in the last I mean this is actually fairly recent some shifts that are happening.
Speaker 5:I work with one family right now, who the student is an international student and he became very worried that something would happen with his visa, that he wouldn't be able to stay here in the States to study, and that's really a different layer of concern that most students don't have, right right.
Speaker 5:But there are a lot of international students in you know who come to the States and you know I I believe that it helps not just you know, the students who are coming here. I think it the flavor of the college and it's exciting to be in school as an American kid, you know with folks from all over the world. So that's exciting and my you know take on some of the shifts that are happening is that it's always going to be a popular thing for kids to come to the States. As I explained to my student, I don't think he has anything to worry about. I think students are welcome from all over the world here in the States and that's not going to change in the next few years.
Speaker 2:I think you're right. It's good for those international students, but it's also good for our students as well.
Speaker 5:It's so good for our students to get exposure to different kids, and that's partially what college does for our students. It gives them a view into what it's like to be from another culture, and culture meaning even just different families, is you know, a different family culture or different parts of the country?
Speaker 1:Right, even within our country.
Speaker 5:Right Even. You know students, you know from California and you know Kansas and all over the place mixing.
Speaker 5:So that's and I see that that is one of the benefits of higher ed in general. And I believe and I don't know if this is going to happen, but I really do believe that small colleges in particular need to expand programming into more certificate programs, Because some of our students really do want a shorter amount of time in college, they want a hands-on skill and they want to leave with some support in terms of job hunting. So I'm hoping that small four-year liberal arts colleges like the one we're comfortable we're in, will expand a little into certificate programs.
Speaker 2:That's going to be something to watch, because I think you're. I think you're right. I think that different kinds not everyone wants the traditional four-year bachelor's degree and so figuring out how to deliver different kinds of experiences for different people, we'll have to keep our eye on that. There may be an episode on that somewhere along the line.
Speaker 5:Good, I hope there are things to talk about. Yeah, you know in that.
Speaker 2:I bet there will be. We'll see what happens. So then, the next thing I want to ask you has got to be your favorite thing, because it's the thing we always ask all of our guests and we have. But you know, thinking back over what you've read over the last year or seen or heard whether it's articles, books, podcasts what would be one or two that you would put top of the list, that you would besides College Parent Central podcast, Of course, of course, of course, that you would put top of the list for you would besides College Parents Central podcast.
Speaker 2:Of course, of course, of course you would put top of the list for parents to be helpful.
Speaker 5:Okay, well, I feel like such a guest on the podcast, because you're asking me this question and it's the question that I usually ask everybody.
Speaker 2:And we have to keep you to one or two. Yes, because I know you probably have a list of 10.
Speaker 5:I do, but I'm going to keep it very small. First of all, the most recent exciting book for me was Lindsay Cormack's book how to Raise a Citizen. We had the honor of interviewing her recently. It was such a different topic I don't think, in terms of parenting, the idea of teaching our kids about government and civics, it of the, it's just not the first thing that comes to mind. And yet, given all the changes in our country, given the fact that high schools or schools are not spending really enough time teaching our kids about US government, teaching our kids about US government, US politics, it just was so exciting to have this book pop out at the right time and so easy to understand. Half the book is about why this is important and half the book is actually the material that we need to be teaching our kids which we don't know.
Speaker 2:She slipped that in there because she knows that it's hard to say okay, I've got to help my student understand this if I don't know it.
Speaker 2:And so it's a nice way to do a little cramming on a few of the things that you're not as sure about. That episode was really I mean, that's hot off the press. That was the last episode that we did so. Episode was really I mean, that's hot off the press. That was the last episode that we did so. That was episode 123. And she made it clear that it's never too late. So I really liked that aspect of the book too that she started with how to start when they're young and teach them but, if, if, if what you have now is a high school student or a college student, it's not too late to start thinking about how to have some of those conversations.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and even when you're an adult and in your forties or fifties, it's not too late to learn. So, um, yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's so, that's one that book.
Speaker 5:The other thing is a um. It's actually probably a website, that um, and it's a friend of mine. So I'm, I'm, I'm bringing up somebody who I, who I respect a lot, and, um, this is a college counselor who works with students with learning differences, and it's Judy Bass and she is from the Washington area, maryland, but of course everything's online. But anyways, her website or her, I guess you could just look up Judy Bass. Her company is called the Bass Educational Services, but what she has started doing in the last couple of years is having articles and she has articles about really interesting things that do connect with students who have learning differences, but also all students.
Speaker 5:The one that I just read in her last sort of. She sends out these emails, but the last one was about. It was an article called the Importance of being College Capable Before being College Ready, and it's written by a guy named Jonathan Steele who is a college counselor, and he talks about the difference between college ready is pretty much academics, you know, are you ready to do the reading and do the writing? But college capable is all about living on a college campus and managing your life as a college student, and that is such a different thing than the academic piece, and you and I do talk about this a lot, and so it was nice to see an article written that really explained it to the point where he gives questions to ask for parents about whether their kids are college capable, and it's done in a really respectful way. It's really well done. But anyways, I think parents should look up Bass Educational Services and they'll see these. A series of articles every month comes out.
Speaker 2:So I'm sure if they go to the website they can sign up to be on the newsletter, the email, and get more of that. And we actually talked to Judy. Yes, we interviewed her she was a guest on the podcast and that was way back in Episode 74. So if people would like to hear more from her and then the show notes for that episode would also have her website, and that sounds like a great article Good.
Speaker 5:Good stuff there's so much good stuff out there.
Speaker 2:I know, and that's why it was hard to say, okay, only one or two. You can't talk about 10.
Speaker 5:It's important also for parents not to be overwhelmed by all the stuff out there. And that's why I think you and I and this podcast provides a service, because we go through all this stuff and then we recommend what we think you know the top of the so we do some curating and then parents can Exactly, and the College Parents Central website under resources has, if you want, more than just the curated ones.
Speaker 2:It has a long, long list of all of the books and resources that really that we recommend. You can't recommend everything equally, but there's a long list there under resources on the website.
Speaker 5:We're all readers.
Speaker 2:So this is coming out in December. We only do one episode in December because we need a little break and it's the holidays, but so I'm thinking ahead about New Year's, and New Year's is all about resolutions, some of which we keep and some of which we don't. But what would you say would be one New Year's resolution that you would give to or would suggest to parents?
Speaker 5:Well, this is something that I talk about a lot You've heard me say this, but it just seems really important to me and that I think that, as parents, we need to take good care of ourselves and we need to make ourselves high priority as parents. When we're worried about our kids, it is so easy to put ourselves on the side burner and, just, you know, hyper-focus on our kids who were, you know, if we're concerned about them or worried about something. But the best thing we can do is model to our kids, taking good care of ourselves. You know, I've started in the last couple of years, I've started meditating and you know I don't. Everybody's got to find their own thing, you know, and it may not be a better parent as well as just be a happier person.
Speaker 5:So, you've heard me talk about that.
Speaker 1:I think before about taking care of ourselves.
Speaker 2:You're consistent and it's an important idea that we do get caught up and we forget about that, especially if we have worries and we all have worries Sure. So then that's for parents. What would you tell students if you could give them one New Year's resolution?
Speaker 5:So for students this is going to be a kind of an odd one, um, but when I think of my students, what I want to say to them is to listen to their own intuition, to their own gut, which sort of means don't listen to your parents first? You know, like you're sure your parents that everything's okay.
Speaker 5:But when push comes to shove, it's you who needs to feel comfortable with decisions that you're making, and I have had this conversation with a number of students. You know to, you know, remember that you, you count in here. And, for example, if you know you love graphic design but your parents want you to do business, you know you got to go. Maybe there's some you know combination of things, but you've got to go. Maybe there's some combination of things, but you've got to honor your own self.
Speaker 5:And it's easier said than done, for students, for kids who love their parents and want to please their parents. It is hard to do.
Speaker 2:But it also requires some soul searching. You can't do it on a surface level, or you can, but it doesn't work out as well if it's on the surface level. Oh, I just want to do this, I don't want to do that. But it really requires making some effort to know yourself well enough that this really is the right thing for you. So that's a good resolution. That is going to require some work.
Speaker 5:Well, growing up requires some work, you know, yeah, and it is, you know, but it pays off, because then, you know, I think that students will feel a little bit more confident.
Speaker 2:And it's authentic and real. Right.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So last one, thinking ahead, because you know we look back and then the resolutions are looking ahead. Yeah, what are you looking forward to in the next year? Professionally, personally, reading, thinking, doing.
Speaker 5:I'm very excited about stepping back from the parts of my job that are more requirements and stepping forward into the parts of my job that are just who I am and what I love to do, which is working with students and working with students and their families. So, you know, I am hoping to branch out a little bit and work with families of students who have learning differences, learning challenges and are figuring out what to do post high school. And personally, I have more time to do things right now, and so I did something about a week ago that was really fun. I took a class out of the blue, an art class. I'm learning about drawing, like botanical drawing. So I like gardening and I like flowers and I like to learn about drawing, but I'm focusing just on that one specific thing botanical drawing.
Speaker 5:And again, it's a little bit like a meditation, because I who end up retiring at some point, that you know you can just explore different things and what a you know, what an exciting thing at you know, at my age, to learn something brand new. It gives me a sense of what it's like for my kids, my students, to learn something brand new my kids, my students, to learn something brand new. It gives me a sense of what it feels like to not be an expert but to be, you know, have the humility of being a beginner, beginner, beginner with something. It is so much fun to learn something brand new, well that's cool.
Speaker 2:I hadn't heard about your, your drawing adventure so. So perhaps if people sign up for our mailing list and they get the podcast email, we try somewhere in the email to put a little personal thing of something that's going on. Maybe we'll have an asparagus picture somewhere along the line.
Speaker 2:Or of a flower or something Grapes. I'm good at grapes, okay. Well, sign up for the mailing list, folks, because you will get to see Lynn's art, but that's great. So we look back once again and we look forward to another year. We're going to be back in January and we'll see what the next year brings. We have lots of good opportunities these days to talk to some great people out there, so I think there will be more of that.
Speaker 5:I love it. It's so exciting for us to do that, you know, to read these books and meet people and figure out what people are saying about this whole world of parenting that changes as our kids get older.
Speaker 2:All right, lots to look forward to. Good to see you again and we'll get a little break over the holidays and see you in January.
Speaker 5:We'll be back. See you later.
Speaker 2:So Sarah Shane, hello.
Speaker 1:Hello there.
Speaker 2:It feels as though it's been a long time since we've had a chance to chat. Yes, it's been a minute and you've been sitting around doing nothing. I know, I know the kind of work that you do for your job. It's a very busy one in that advising and student success world, especially as we're approaching the end of the semester.
Speaker 4:So I know you've been busy. Yes, it's been a semester for sure, for sure, but we're getting there.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, we are almost at the finish line. As we are recording this, and by the time it comes out in a couple of weeks, we will be past the finish line and just are just about at the finish line of the semester, which is good for everybody. Yes, I think the students are ready as well, yeah, but I think the faculty are more ready than the students.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So it's been impossible to get the four co-hosts together in the same time because we've all been so busy. So we're having some little separate chats, just to you know, just to sort of think about the year that's passed I can't believe we're finishing up season five of the podcast and to think a little bit about what's ahead. So let me ask you that, starting with looking backwards, you are on the front line working with students, not in a class, but as they're sort of looking at the big picture of college.
Speaker 2:And as you think about the past year, any observations or thoughts about what you're seeing in students, what they're like, what they're challenged with? I don't know what went on in the past year.
Speaker 4:Sure, sure.
Speaker 4:And, as you said, our office is very busy.
Speaker 4:I'm in the Office of Advising and Academic Success, so we see all sides of everything in terms of the advising piece and as well as when students could use support in the academic success realm, and there's so much that we have to offer that I know all schools do.
Speaker 4:And I think one thing that you know I really wish we could get through to students earlier in the semester, earlier in the year, is for them to understand the importance of utilizing their resources, and I think so many of them don't like to ask for help and feel like it's either a failure to ask for help or just feel so nervous asking for help. And you know we have a unique course, a one credit course that allows us to go into the first year classrooms in the first semester, which is great. That seems to have helped in a number of ways. We've gone in twice this semester, which does seem to have helped students be more open to outreach from our office and at least feel yes, we're here to help, we're friendly, we don't have eight heads and green horns and we're not scary and you know.
Speaker 4:So I think that has helped somewhat, but it just so often we, you know, we send emails, we text students, we try a thousand things and you know there kind of falls on deaf ears initially, and then eventually, throughout the semester, when more and more students start utilizing our resources and coming to us to learn more about reading strategies and test-taking strategies and the tutoring opportunities that we offer and different things, they're so happy and they feel so much better after they've utilized everything and they always say I wish I'd come here sooner.
Speaker 4:And I don't know if it's the students kind of not trusting themselves to who do I go see and who do I ask? And what if I don't understand them? And what if I sit down next to an adult and don't even know? You know they expect me to ask them questions and I don't know what to say. So I think that's something that you know. We're constantly kind of trying to break down those barriers to make sure students know we want them to know they don't need to know everything. They don't really need to know anything. That's what we're here to help them with.
Speaker 2:If they knew everything, they wouldn't need to be in college.
Speaker 4:Yeah, they wouldn't need us. So you know, kind of feel safe asking questions and not feeling insecure about that.
Speaker 2:So I think that's really, really important and that's a piece that parents can help students understand. I think institutions work really really hard, especially with new first-year students, to let them know about all of the resources and also to let parents know you know, we've got this, we've got a writing center, we've got tutors, we've got, you know, support, we've got counselors, we've got all of these. We let them know about the resources, but we don't teach them how to be proactive about using the resources. It's not enough for them just to know about them. They've got to reach out, and I think it's really a good observation, sarah, that they feel like they're almost a failure or there's that imposter syndrome. If I have to ask for help, it's because I'm not smart enough and the college made a mistake in accepting me.
Speaker 4:Right, and then I'm supposed to know. Everybody else knows what they're doing, which of course they don't. But everyone else knows. I'm the only one who doesn't know what's going on, and of course that's so not true.
Speaker 2:So if parents can you know, encourage you know, certainly if parents know a little bit about what the resources are and they can say oh, you know there's a writing center, have you gone? But that's not really enough, because we do that, All colleges do that. You know, they know there's a writing center. What they don't know is why they should go or how they should go. What should I take with me? What should I be prepared to say? What is likely to happen?
Speaker 4:Almost preparing for the meeting and when we go into this class that we do. And then we sometimes get asked to speak to different segments of student populations and we say you don't have to come super prepared. We want you to show up and we'll help you with everything you need to know. But it does help a little bit if you've put a little thought into an assignment or even if you aren't sure where to start on an assignment, even knowing that, like you've thought about it and are already confused. Great, let us know your thoughts on you know, in the writing faculty or the writing peer tutors or whoever, whomever you're meeting with, let them know where you're blocked so that they can help you not only figure that out but kind of start the process, the kind of breakdown, the confusion process of what steps to take, because you'll invariably have many of the same questions for the next assignment or another class.
Speaker 4:So learning the process of how to find information and break down things and think about things is, is it's a skill. So you know why would you know it if you haven't done it before? But wherever you are in the process is fine. You don't have to have written a whole paper and then have to have it at you know anything like that. But just kind of come with some thoughts, that's all you need and we'll kind of walk you through the rest.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I and yeah, I think sorry, the only other thing I can think of it that parents could help with this is that two things One thing for parents to kind of feel reassured that you probably will at some point in the semester get a call once or twice from your student, sometimes about a month into things, when you know papers start being due and tests start to happen, and then again around midterms and or finals, but with student kind of freaking out, feeling overwhelmed, not feeling prepared, feeling like oh, this is, you know, I haven't stayed on top of things.
Speaker 4:And for the parent to not feel that's a terrible thing in any way or that it's unusual. All students go through this, so don't you get nervous and worried and freaked out and add to your students' stress and anxiety. Direct your student back to their resources, whether it's their advisor, their advising center, their academic success coordinator, their coaching student success, whatever their resources are at the school and I'm sure they can find all that in their email and on links they've been sent and all that. But kind of reassure them that that is normal to feel that way and they shouldn't despair and they shouldn't feel like they shouldn't be here. It's a very normal, understandable way of processing all that, especially in the first semester, so kind of redirecting the student, helping, kind of calm and deescalate them and not taking it personally on their end too that my gosh, they can't do this.
Speaker 2:You know, don't realize they're not alone, Absolutely, that's important. So you know what you're talking about and students and understanding resources and understanding a lot of that I think relates to because you and I chatted for a little bit before we started recording and I know that you have a book that that you, that you are going to- read all of that free time that you have over holiday break. But talk a little bit about this book that you heard about at a conference.
Speaker 4:Yeah, sure I'd love to. You know it would have been even lovelier had I had the chance to read it, but I've heard good things. It's called the secret syllabus and it's essentially the you know kind of their, their goal, their claim is the guide to unwritten rules of college success, and I've heard good things about it from a number of folks and I heard about it at an advising conference as well, and I think that there's so much to be said for students not really understanding the hidden information that isn't written everywhere. Things like utilizing your faculty as resources and not just looking at them the way you know they did in high school, as somebody who grades them or someone who marks them late or someone who's an authority figure that they should be, you know, not really afraid of, but, you know, utilizing, kind of getting rid of that mentality of high school, and utilizing your professors and your faculty as people who can be your support system and your support network to help you learn about different fields and learn about jobs that are going to be coming up in the industry, and they're so on the front lines and have been for years, so they're such a wonderful resource. They're not just there to, you know, give you grades, but to help you with your life search.
Speaker 4:And you know once and I know this isn't something students think about initially in their first semester of their first year, but eventually as references as well for jobs or grad school and that type of thing Like you have all these wonderful resources that you know you don't want to, you want to make sure to utilize, you know, and other things as well, and I think that this is some of the things that the secret syllabus talks about. Some of the things that the secret syllabus talks about, and I and I think that you know, especially for students who are first generation college students, they don't have someone kind of telling them these things in the background and saying did you go to office hours and did you fill out this form so that you, you know, don't lose your housing for next semester? Did you read your email to make sure you're not missing important things? I think you know not that every, every parent who's gone to college does that either, but at least they can sometimes think of those things.
Speaker 2:We don't realize how much we assume they know, and I think I suspect that, and when you're done reading it, I'm going to borrow that book and read it too. I may have to wait a couple of years at how busy you are in having a chance to read it. Yes, I'm going to read it too. I may have to wait a couple of years at how busy you are, and having a chance to read it.
Speaker 2:But I think we do assume a lot that there are just those hidden things that those of us who live in this higher ed world. It's par for the course for us and we need to remember that it's new information for a lot of students. So that book sounds like it's par for the course for us and we need to remember that it's new information for a lot of students. So that book sounds like it's really good. We'll put a link to the book and a little more information about it in the show notes. So, if anyone's looking, this episode is coming out before Christmas. So if anyone's looking for a Christmas or a holiday gift of any kind, that might be something you want to think about for your student. Okay, I have a couple of quick ones for you.
Speaker 2:If you were to think about? New Year is coming up and many of us make New Year's resolutions that we keep for 10 minutes. But if you were to make up a New Year's resolution for college, high school or college parents, what would it be?
Speaker 4:Okay, that's a good one. I think what I would love to see is to have parents work with students more on their ability to be okay in the state of confusion and in learning to live with ambiguity. So what I mean by that is you know we see such a rise in anxiety in students and you know the past number of years and you know for a number of reasons and I think too, part of it is so many students feel like they A should know things or, and again, don't feel comfortable asking questions and just the in the back of their mind, they're always afraid they're going to fail or they're not where they're supposed to be, or they should know something they don't know. And I think if parents could a couple of things work with students on letting them know you're 18, you're 20 or you're 22. You don't have to have it all figured out. You're not supposed to have it all figured out. You're supposed to be asking questions and you're supposed to be going down different paths, and not all those paths are going to be the right ones for you. But you're not going to know until you try.
Speaker 4:It's okay to fail. It's okay to try a major that doesn't turn out like you thought it would be Okay to try a class that, oh, you got to see and oh well, it's not the end of the world. Like you have to try things to figure out where your next steps are. And if you sit in a state of confusion because you're too afraid to take that next step, you're never going to make any forward progress.
Speaker 4:So having students feel comfortable with the internal and external search process and not feeling like they're supposed to know things and I know how many times do is a graduating senior in high school. What are you going to be? What do you want to do? What are you going to study? What are you going to major in? Oh, and it's okay to say that and to feel that and to work through that and to not inadvertently contribute to pressure that a student can feel, especially when, oh well, you got to get a major, that you get a good job, like, okay, like that's a whole other conversation, but not putting inadvertent pressure on on your children or your students to know things they don't know. And be okay with stumbling through the process. Figure it out.
Speaker 2:That would be great. That's a great resolution. It's not an easy resolution but, to you know, the expression we sometimes use is to be comfortable with the uncomfortable, and students need to do that, but so do parents. Yeah, so yeah good, so this might be. You know, maybe there's overlap here. I was going to ask you if you would have a New Year's resolution for students, but I don't know. Is it the same one, or would you tell them something else?
Speaker 4:I mean a couple of things.
Speaker 4:I mean, I think very similarly, like don't think that all your friends really know what they want to do, even though they're telling you what they're majoring in, and you feel like you're the only one in the world who doesn't have it figured out. I mean, the percentage of students who change their major at least once in college is astronomical. So don't think that you know, you don't have it figured out while everyone else does. Life is a process and you kind of be kind to yourself and be open to things.
Speaker 4:I think, and I can tell you this for sure, the students who come in with as undecided majors are so much more open and willing to explore different courses, majors, careers, different things while they're here, especially in the first semester, in the first year, Whereas we'll have students who come in knowing they want to be X major, whatever it is, whether it's a science major or a business major, and sometimes it's because they know someone who's in that field and they respect that person and they, they think highly of them and the work that they do. So you know, maybe for great reasons, this is what they think they want to do, but they didn't really have any practical knowledge of it or what that entails. So then they try a similar major and hate it.
Speaker 4:And they get so confused and feel, oh, I can't do this, this is too hard, and they spiral until it's college isn't for me, as opposed to taking a step back and saying, oh wow, well, that's interesting, all those different aspects of this field and this major that I didn't realize.
Speaker 4:That may not really speak to my skills. After all, what else you got? What else, what else can I do? So not taking everything personally and thinking every first step has to be the only step and being open to trying new things and realizing that you're gonna change and you're gonna explore different things if you let yourself. And college is much harder if you're locked into one specific thing without giving yourself wiggle room and chance to grow and explore. And I think you know we've seen that so often in students, and they go through such internal crises when they force themselves to try to do something, either they or their parents, that they think their parents want them to do, when it's when it's not really possibly what they're meant to do and they're not giving themselves the freedom to try other things and explore things and be who they maybe ought to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it sounds as though your resolution for parents and your resolution for students kind of go hand in hand, and that's great, because that that you know. So the students need to be open and able to, willing to explore and be flexible, and parents need to be willing to allow them to do that and and not be pushing them. So that's good, because if that happens in a family, so you know, then everybody will get along.
Speaker 1:Ideally.
Speaker 2:So, last thing, the resolutions are looking forward a little bit. But what are you looking forward to next year, personally, professionally, other than time to read some of the books you have stacked up?
Speaker 4:Oh my gosh, I know I'm so excited. That's what my husband always says. That's how I'm going to go. The stack of books on my nightstand is going gonna crash on me in the middle of the night. Um, so a couple things I mean personally. I guess my older son is graduating from college a semester early. So super excited, exciting, yes, yes, and he's thinking about different options and has applied for different in different, for different jobs in different fields and is also thinking grad school.
Speaker 2:So kind of exploring that with him and encouraging him and you need to take your own advice and back off and let him explore.
Speaker 4:Oh, absolutely Just giving him the permission to try all kinds of different things and I think he puts a little pressure on himself wants to make some money, pay off loans, you know different things and kind of reminding him that you don't have to have it all figured out right now. You don't have to know step a to z, just be kind to yourself, explore different things and see where that takes you. It's sort of freshman year all over, exactly, but for life, right. So so, yeah, so that's an exciting thing, personally and professionally. We do have some exciting things kind of happening in our neck of the woods, in our office next year that I'm looking forward to in terms of getting.
Speaker 4:We might be getting a couple new staff to try to kind of create some new dynamics within our office and be able to reach out to students in different ways and bring our resources to them in different ways.
Speaker 4:And I'd love to be able to have the opportunity to explore a couple of different conferences with some of my folks to try to get you know, kind of on top of a bunch of you know maybe, some new initiatives we have some ideas and outlines for to reach students and to connect with students and have students connect with each other Because I think that's a thing too is often students, you know, and I think we all do this probably somewhat, but when you feel uncertain and you feel worried and you feel concerned, you kind of withdraw. So trying to help students connect to each other so you can all realize you're going through the same thing and you know, probably at different times to some extent, but working with students to help them connect with each other so that they don't feel, you know, and certainly with us of course but that they feel like they have partners in crime and all of this as they go through this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those connections are so important and that's why sometimes peer tutoring works so well, because you know they're on the same wavelength Absolutely.
Speaker 4:And we often find students feel more comfortable asking other students questions, whereas they're afraid to ask you know an adult question because they feel silly asking it or they feel like they should know it, whereas another student they're happy to say what? Can you go back again? Can you show me that again? I don't even know where to start.
Speaker 2:So it sounds like exciting things coming along. I'll have to hear a little more about some of those, and I think it's helpful for parents to know that we are constantly rethinking, you know, looking at the students and seeing what they need and rethinking different ways to approach working with them and all of that. So we'll see what the next year brings, and we will be back in January with new episodes for season six of the College Parents Central podcast, and maybe somewhere along the line we'll be hearing some more about some of the new and creative initiatives that are happening in your world, which will be great.
Speaker 4:Yeah, sure, we're hoping to launch another one, or try a new facet of one, in the end of January. So happy to tell you how that goes Well we'll look forward to hearing a little more about that.
Speaker 2:So, good to have a chance to talk to you.
Speaker 4:And we'll talk again soon. Great Sounds great. Have a wonderful holiday.
Speaker 2:And end of the year. I guess we have to make it through the end of the year semester first.
Speaker 4:We do, we're not quite there yet, but it's coming.
Speaker 2:Yes, amen Okay.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:It's Vicki back again. I had a great time talking to my co-hosts in a way that we often don't have a chance to do, and I hope you enjoyed listening to some of the suggestions that they made and their observations. I wanted to just add my two cents on a couple of the kinds of things that I asked my colleagues about, and I asked them to think about the past year and what they're seeing, perhaps in higher ed, and it occurred to me that one of the things I've noticed is there's a growing emphasis on a lot of campuses to think about helping students feel a sense of engagement and belonging. It's not just enough to be there to be part of the community, but to really feel like they belong and that they're connected and engaged in a different kind of way, whether that's through activities and seeing people on campus that look like them and feeling seen and heard and respected. So that's kind of exciting. I think that there's a move as colleges and universities, institutions, are really working at helping students feel like this is a place where I belong, not just where I learn. So that's one thing I'm seeing.
Speaker 2:And then, of course, we love to talk about books, so I asked about books and we're going to list all of the books that everybody talked about in the show notes and I have two that I. There's so many, it was hard. But if you're looking for a book for your student, I would recommend Outsmart your Brain by Daniel Willingham. He's a psychologist and this is his field and he talks a lot about how our brain tricks us into thinking that some of the ways that we study are effective, but why they're really not, and an alternative way to do some things that outsmarts your brain, that sort of tricks your brain, and really works better than the way your brain tells you oh, this is easy, this will work. So it's a great, great book, one that students can kind of dip into and out of, but would make a great holiday gift or any kind of gift, or stuck in a care package or something. So it's Outsmart your Brain by Daniel Willingham.
Speaker 2:And another book especially for high school parents, if you're thinking about cost and your student coming up, is Ron Lieber's book the Price you Pay for College. It's a wonderful book about financial aid, but also about the inner workings of the admissions process and financial aid and helping students and parents together think about what's important for them. That's why I think his book is not called the Cost of College, but the Price you Pay. What are you willing to pay for? What are your priorities? It's a great book. He's the financial writer for the New York Times, so it's a different approach and a great book for financial aid. So that's the Price you Pay for College by Ron Lieber.
Speaker 2:And then I asked everybody about resolutions if you would have a resolution for parents and a resolution for students, and I do. I would say, for a parent, a resolution for the new year would be to allow for your own transition. We're so focused on helping our students make that transition to college and supporting them and helping them achieve success that sometimes we forget that we are making a transition as well. It's a new role for parents. It's a little different than the role you've had before and it's a time for you to grow and find some change. And find some changes you need to do. And also, as my colleague Lynn is always so eager to talk about, the relationship with your student is a new student. You will understand your student in new and different ways as they go to school and you talk to them differently. So my resolution for parents would be to allow for your own transition and to remember you're going through a lot too.
Speaker 2:And then, if you want to give a resolution to your student, I would suggest that students resolve to think more broadly about who they want to be beyond career. There's a great focus now on career development and career readiness and colleges working harder than ever to help students get ready for that job, to find that job, and all of that is a wonderful thing and I don't want to diminish that. I don't want to diminish that. But I would encourage students to think not just about their professional life and what kind of job and career they want, but what kind of person they want to be, and think about what they can do while they're in college to create that person that they want to be beyond just their career. This is a great college, is a great time of development, and what do they want to develop? What aspects of, what strengths do they have that they want to bring out? What challenges do they face that they might want to work on? Who do they want to be beyond the nine to five when they graduate? So that's my resolution for students.
Speaker 2:And then, thinking forward, next year is going to be season six of the College Parent Central podcast.
Speaker 2:It's hard to believe, but we'll be back and talking about all kinds of things that we see and hear. We'd love to hear from listeners to let us know what you'd like to hear more about, and I think it's going to be a year of change, a year of flexibility. I talked about that for students and parents thinking about that, and I think it's. I have a lot going on in my life that's going to be requiring some flexibility and change and it's making me think about how important that is for everything, including perhaps the College Parents Central podcast. I don't know, we'll see what topics we talk about, but we're looking forward to it. We hope you will join us in January as we begin season six of the College Parents Central podcast. As always, we're so grateful for our listeners. Thank you for being with us. If you're here hearing this, you've made it all the way through this episode. Thank you for that. We wish you a great holiday season, a great end of the year, and we'll see you in January for season six.