College Parent Central Podcast

#114 Getting Comfortable with the Uncomfortable: A Conversation with Author Harlan Cohen

• Vicki Nelson and Lynn Abrahams • Season 5 • Episode 114

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Vicki and Elizabeth had a wide-ranging conversation with Harlan Cohen, college transition expert and author of The Naked Roommate: And 107 Other Issues You Might Run Into In College. Harlan shared why the transition to college can be so difficult and why finding your People, your Places, and having Patience can make a difference. Harlan encourages parents – and students – to understand that the first year of college, or at least the first semester, may be a terrible mess. Although that may not sound very positive, you’ll want to hear Harlan explain how that knowledge can be freeing and help students find their direction.

Thank you for listening!

Announcer:

Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast. Whether your child is just beginning the college admission process or is already in college, this podcast is for you. You'll find food for thought and information about college and about navigating that delicate balance of guidance, involvement and knowing when to get out of the way. Join your hosts as they share support and a celebration of the amazing experience of having a child in college.

Elizabeth Hamblet:

Welcome everybody to another episode of College Parents Central. I'm Elizabeth Hamlet. I'll be one of your co-hosts today, and we are delighted to be joined by Harlan Cohen, the author of Naked Roommate and several other books. He's the head of a coaching program. I am a huge, huge fan of his and we're just so pleased that he's going to be able to be here. For those who are watching us live on Facebook, we will not be taking your questions, but you are welcome to join us for this conversation. Watch as we go along and the podcast will drop. July 3rdicki yes.

Elizabeth Hamblet:

July 3rd, so if you are not already subscribed to the College Parents Central podcast, you're obviously not listening to me, because I tell you all the time you should. So be sure to subscribe and it will come to your phone in your favorite podcast app then. So, vicki, you want to get us started?

Vicki Nelson:

Sure, we're going to jump right in, harlan. Thank you so much for taking time to talk with us today. I know you and Elizabeth have chatted before, but it has been years that I've been wishing we could get you, so I'm very excited to have you here, thank you. I'm sorry, go ahead.

Harlan Cohen:

I was just saying I'm so grateful to have the chance to visit with you both, and I'm a big fan, so I'm excited to be able to share.

Vicki Nelson:

Good Well, thank you for sharing, because I think very much of the time college parents need all the help they can get All of the voices, because our messages are often very similar but we say them differently, so it really helps people to hear different voices.

Elizabeth Hamblet:

And as I was listing all of Harlan's accomplishments, I left out his podcast. Shame on. Me, and so make sure you subscribe to that one too.

Vicki Nelson:

Yes, because you were just a guest on that one, so how dare you forget? But I'm also a subscriber and a fan and a listener, and so y'all need all the information you can get, and so reach out to all the resources, yeah, so I want to go back and I know, harlan, you started as writing an advice column for newspapers and you were syndicated in doing that. And what led you from doing that to making your life's work be about writing for college students and helping them?

Harlan Cohen:

Well, I've always looked at my writing as reporting on human emotions. You know I was much more interested in people dealing with relationships and and breakups and conflict and how to communicate, like. To me that was so much more interesting than the news, uh, and it also felt a lot more relevant. So it's always been this, this hunger to try and understand how people communicate and how our emotions work. So I got really lucky that that was just what drove me and as an advice columnist and I started writing my column after I had an internship at the Tonight Show with Jay Leno years ago and one of the writers suggested writing advice because he wrote an advice column.

Harlan Cohen:

So I started doing that and I did it in my college paper and first I was just writing my own questions and answering myself in front of everyone and then my friends started to ask me questions or I would write about their problems and they didn't realize I was writing about their problems and really connected with the column because it was their lives without them knowing. Uh, then real people started to write to me and at first I was very, very much, uh, you know, flip and short, just kind of a bit of a smart ass I was trying to avoid saying smart ass, but I don't know if there's another way to say it. Um uh, a wise guy, right oh?

Elizabeth Hamblet:

why they don't think.

Harlan Cohen:

I'm breaking fingers and stuff. Um, a wise guy, right, they don't think I'm breaking fingers and stuff, but I was always a little flip and funny. But then I started to get very real because I recognized people had these real problems and I started to reach out to experts and over the years that just expanded and college is really a backdrop to all of the issues we deal with while we navigate the transition from being a teen to being an independent adult, and it just happens to take place on this college campus world. So I became an expert on that by virtue of trying to help people to just deal with all the changes and also trying to make sense of my own challenges and struggles that I dealt with throughout the years, especially going back to my challenges navigating the transition to life in college.

Vicki Nelson:

Well, college students are lucky that you drifted into that world and you have been, you say over the years and I know there have been quite a few, that you've been doing this. I started College Parent Central in 2009, and you were already well established, as you know, one of the gurus of this world. So you've been doing it quite a while and I'm curious whether you have seen changes over that amount of time in the students, in the parents, in their relationship. What's happened over those years?

Harlan Cohen:

Well, I've seen the changes. Then, when you look at the statistics, you know, we know that there has been an increase in terms of anxiety and depression and students struggling. So you've got the students' mental health that's rapidly declined. And then you have the scarcity, the fear mentality of admissions because I do a lot of work in admissions as well. So you have this fear of not being able to get something and you have to work so hard, starting so early into your academic life. So there's this buildup and there's this anticipation, and then there are these big expectations and then you get to this culmination where you're in and and you, you, you. Now you start. But when you start, what happens is the expectations. In reality, there's a bigger gap than ever before because there's so much anticipation, because there's. So, in reality, there's a bigger gap than ever before because there's so much anticipation, because there's so much work, because there's been so much burnout that I find it's very hard for students to navigate this change and it's very hard for parents to understand this change because the focus has been so much on search and selection as opposed to transition, which is where I live and I've been advocating. We need to talk about transition and college success really begins with our own life transitions, and all of those things have combined into this storm that has created an environment where you have more students than ever who are struggling and more parents who don't know how to help, because and we were talking about this before we started recording right now and I like talking about where we are because I think each month, each week, is so pivotal we're in June, right, so we just finished graduation. Everybody's celebrating.

Harlan Cohen:

My son just my son graduated this June and today he texted us a picture of him holding his high school diploma. They take that one on the stage. He's got this great smile and it's so, it's so wonderful. And now it's shopping, and he went to orientation and then, in six weeks, that's when it all starts. And, elizabeth and Vicki, I know we know this, but most students are not prepared. Most parents do not have the information they need to help their students to navigate this change, and that's why, more so than ever, I feel more compelled and more driven to find as many ways as possible to help students and parents to understand what's coming, so they can be excited, but they can also be prepared, and more of them are not prepared than ever before.

Elizabeth Hamblet:

What kinds of things do you observe that sort of like? How does that play out for students?

Harlan Cohen:

Well, just before I share that, what do you two think Like? Do you think what I'm sharing is accurate? Do you agree with that?

Vicki Nelson:

Absolutely, I agree.

Harlan Cohen:

A thesis on where we are.

Vicki Nelson:

And not only are students not prepared, parents are not prepared for their own transition, that their relationship has to change if they're going to support their student in the way that they need to.

Harlan Cohen:

Yeah, that's a big thing, and how to prepare for that and the specific issues. I think, Elizabeth, you were asking me what are some of the specific issues that students aren't ready for. Is that the question?

Announcer:

Yeah, yeah.

Harlan Cohen:

Yeah, yeah, I think. Well, the way I like to process, cause I have ADHD, which I was recently diagnosed I always knew I had something going on and I have these frameworks and I have these frameworks, I have these ways of looking at uncomfortable or unfamiliar situations where I can help be more comfortable with the unknown, because frameworks and systems make the unknown less anxiety provoking, anxiety provoking. So when you asked me that question, the way that I process, it is okay. There are five big changes that students are going to go through and parents are also going to go through these changes and the acronym is SEPFA and it's a ridiculous acronym and the P probably might create a little static, a little feedback. Sepfa it's a ridiculous acronym, but it's social. Create a little static, a little feedback. Sepfa it's a ridiculous acronym, but it's social, emotional, physical, financial and academic. So these are the five big transitions.

Harlan Cohen:

So, when it comes to our students, prepared for the social transition, well, I would say most of them are not. They're very worried about making friends. Many of them haven't been able to make friends or haven't had practice making friends. Technology can be wonderful, but it can also be very isolating. The FOMO, the snap maps, uh, the, the anxiety, the social anxiety. I get so many students who are really anxious and worried. And then I get parents who are worried that their kids are going to be the same as they were in high school. You know, there's this idea if you have a kid who's been a little shy and reserved and and has had some social anxiety in high school, they're going to have it in college.

Elizabeth Hamblet:

Yeah, which seems obvious, right, but I think it's that optimism, right? Yeah, it's not like.

Harlan Cohen:

It's not like this restart where the switch gets flipped, but then they'll ask me, cause I do parent coaching too. It's not like this restart where the switch gets flipped, but then they'll ask me because I do parent coaching too, and they'll ask me you know, what can you do to help my child to be better equipped and to navigate this change? And the biggest piece is to just allow them to be, to give them room, to just be present without worrying, and we'll get to the patience piece later. But the social part takes time. So then there's living with a roommate If they live on campus. There's communicating. There's communicating with professors, with your teachers. One of the biggest challenges that I have seen is the ability to advocate. And right and I know you're both shaking your heads it's students really struggle, even students who come from the most regarded prestigious high schools and independent schools. High schools and independent schools this idea of advocating for yourself and knowing how to advocate and advocating is very much a social skill as well as academic, and it's in every aspect of our life.

Elizabeth Hamblet:

And it's a learned skill too, and it's one that parents can teach. And so you know, as somebody whose focus is on helping students with disabilities make a successful transition, you know self-advocacy is something we talk about all the time, because once they're at college they are considered adults. They're the ones who have to register for accommodations and do all of that stuff. But you know there are opportunities leading up to college for parents to teach their students how to do this stuff. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, I was going to say so.

Elizabeth Hamblet:

You know, one of the things that I like so much about your work and you know it's really coming through to me lately I don't know if it's just the videos that happen to come up in my feed is this, this notion of being comfortable with the uncomfortable.

Elizabeth Hamblet:

So I think you know you just mentioned that we're in it. We're in June, it's a time of celebration. The kids have made it through high school and everybody's having a great time and thinking about what you know what, what comfort they're going to buy for the dorm, and it hasn't perhaps yet set in that this is a whole new place, a new environment. Maybe your student doesn't know anybody where they're going, and I think you know, post pandemic too, I think parents have had a lot of really quality time, maybe not always quality, but a lot of time around their students and they have, you know, advocated for them because they're right in the room and you know there there's them because they're right in the room and you know there's just been so much time to be there and to be available to their students and now they're going to go someplace where, in theory, there should be some separation. So you know and it's a wise colleague said to me years ago, transition to college doesn't just happen to the student, it happens to the parents.

Elizabeth Hamblet:

And so you know what is this getting comfortable with the uncomfortable mean, and why is that so central to the message that at least I see coming through?

Harlan Cohen:

Yeah, well, I'm glad it comes through, because I think this idea that uncomfortable is part of change, it's a normal, natural part of life and transition and embracing discomfort is something we don't practice a lot of. So this idea of giving ourselves permission to be uncomfortable, with this understanding that life change can be difficult, really enables us to not fight this natural change but to walk alongside it. I think that's where the solution comes in, where, before, you're asking, when it comes to all these changes, how can we work through that? You know how, how can a parent help, how can a student help? And and the framework of of really wanting something what do I want?

Harlan Cohen:

Everybody having something they want and giving themselves permission to be uncomfortable. If they want friends, what makes them uncomfortable about not finding friends? Or what makes them uncomfortable about putting themselves in places where they can find friends? And how can they start thinking about that early and how can they start advocating for themselves or practicing with an understanding of how to tap into those resources that are available on a campus? So and I want to give solutions because I don't want to just be someone who stirs the pot and creates problems it's really what do I want? What makes me uncomfortable, and then people places patients. That's the simple framework.

Harlan Cohen:

So, yeah, and it works so well of what do I want? Because, as a parent, there's certain things we want, but we also want to support our student to even ask that question, and I think most students don't ask that question because they're so focused on being wanted. They don't really think about what's going to happen the first six weeks, what's going to happen the first 12 weeks. So let's start with what do you want? Even a conversation of of, of where do you think you'll you'll find friends other than just existing and being in class and being where you live or spending time where you live, and then what makes you uncomfortable about that? And then, when we're uncomfortable, when we can identify things that make us uncomfortable, then it becomes much easier to find the people in the places who are there to support us. So the example of a student who's taking classes, who's registering for classes, who doesn't know what classes to take or is nervous about this Well, who are some of the people in the places on the campus you're going to who could help you? Well, the answer is it's summer. I don't know anyone, right, but there's the orientation leaders. There are RAs who you can see through social media. There's the orientation leaders. There are RAs who you can see through social media. There's the admissions office you can reach out to. There's your academic advisor. There are friends who possibly have gone to this school. There might be a Reddit group on social media. There also could be some a Discord server. There are places where there are people who have gone through these experiences who can help you and support you.

Harlan Cohen:

But it starts with you and it starts with us, as parents, giving our kids permission to answer the question what do you want? As opposed to telling them what they need to do or what they should want. So, so that's just a simple tool of like practicing of like hey, what do you want? And this is what I do when I do the. I do a lot of one-on-one coaching and I do group coaching and right now we're actually starting every other week for the next 10 weeks or eight weeks, we're going through the five areas of transition. Where I'm where, each week, we talk about one of the elements of transition, one of those pieces the social and then we break down you got to want something.

Harlan Cohen:

Okay, what are you a little worried about? The student who's anxious? The student who doesn't have a history of being so social? Okay, well, you want to meet people. So how do you meet people? What's one thing you can do? Well, why don't you first put yourself in the places where you are welcome and included, simply because you exist, where you show up, and I love this, you know you show up and people say welcome, and this is where, if a student needs accommodations, the office that works with students is great, because the people there are wonderful. And you could also ask those people.

Harlan Cohen:

Okay, who are some of the students who I should reach out to? Or what types of groups are they in? Are there activities? Are there organizations? When I'm directing students, it's multicultural groups, it's first generation programs, it's volunteer groups, it's these large organizations where you're welcome and included. So if you're athletic, how can you do that?

Harlan Cohen:

So the things you did in high school? So if I want friends and I'm uncomfortable that I'm not going to make them, then what's my plan other than I'm going to talk to people in my hall and talk to them in class, or try to get into a fraternity or sorority where I have no control over access and I have to win people over, or I have to do something in order to get something. So I'm a fan of how do you create a world where the dynamics are set up for you so you can go after what you want. And I know that getting comfortable with the uncomfortable, my, my, my answers are long, but but they all connect because the getting comfortable with the uncomfortable is I'm afraid I'm going to be judged, I don't know people. Um, I'm worried about rejection. And and if you also follow me, I'm obsessed with rejection, because at the root of discomfort is this fear that either I'm going to disappoint myself or someone's going to judge me in an unfavorable way.

Harlan Cohen:

And when I can get comfortable with this universal rejection truth, this law of nature it's another one of those things I created to make myself feel better, because people with ADHD are oftentimes will have more of a sensitivity to rejection.

Harlan Cohen:

So, teasing that out over the years.

Harlan Cohen:

This law of nature, this universal rejection truth, this thing that should be on the periodic table of elements, this URT, it's an undeniable truth.

Harlan Cohen:

And as we go through life, there are things we can control and things we can't control, and the universal rejection truth is always at play. And when I don't get the outcome I desire, instead of internalizing it and thinking I'm the problem recognizing there can be lots of elements at play. So I don't have to get caught in the shame cycle when I get uncomfortable. And for parents and supporters, we have ways we describe this. You know you miss every shot you don't take and other metaphors. But really what it is is the universal rejection truth, this idea that there's something bigger than us and, instead of feeling shame when we miss the shots, feeling like we're present and we're doing things the right way, because change is uncomfortable and that's part of the process. So that's how we can get comfortable with the uncomfortable as we go after the things we want to support ourselves during this really uncertain time of change. I hope I brought it together nicely.

Vicki Nelson:

Yeah, and it occurs to me that it's one thing to be comfortable with your own uncomfortable, and it's hard for parents when they see their student being uncomfortable. For me to be comfortable with your discomfort is very different than being with my own, and parents, you know thinking about how they can fit into this that you described so well of what students need to have a plan and all is is to help students strategize those things, even even sometimes role-playing. You know how are you going to start up a conversation with a student in the dining hall? Or if you reach out to that RA, what are you going to say? That that these the simple, so that Seemingly simple social steps aren't always easy, for the interpersonal relationships are difficult for students these days.

Harlan Cohen:

When you were saying that I just want to jump in, I was thinking of my son and the idea that I'm, you know, the idea of a parent role playing with their kid. Like that's tough sometimes, you know, because it's like.

Harlan Cohen:

It's like and this is, I think, so important if they don't want to play, if they don't want to role play, if they don't want to think about these things, then that's okay. And I, and I think that this part of, for me at least, having a son who's going through this now, you know, I'm I really I'm committed to the fact that this first year is going to be really unpredictable. There's going to be a lot of wonderful things that are going to happen, but there's also going to be a lot of unexpected things that are going to happen. In order for me to be the best support partner, I need to be an observer, because I'm not the director. To be an observer because I'm not the director, and when something happens, I need to ask what my role could be. You know, can't, can I help you? Would you like some help?

Harlan Cohen:

Then then it becomes this willingness and this is what I do when I, when I speak, I ask the students, I say, um, some of you are going to really enjoy this and some of you are not in a place where you're going to want to hear this, and wherever you are, that's okay.

Harlan Cohen:

You know, I just happen to be here today and it might be a day where you're welcome and open to this, and it might be a day where you just don't want to hear me at all, which is totally okay because I understand that, but I want you to know I'm here when you need me, understand that.

Harlan Cohen:

But I want you to know I'm here when you need me and if you want to listen you're welcome to. And I think that approach of I know, you know, uh, although I kind of know more, but I'm not going to tell you that every day, um, but I'm going to be open to that. So then it's that parent who's like you know, my kid shuts me down because you know they are nervous and I'll just throw one more thing in If your kid will not engage with you. This is where I think, and this is the emotional transition plan, that every student and I'm very careful when I use absolutes I think every student needs someone other than a family member who is qualified, who has a history helping and supporting students. I think therapists are wonderful resources, but they need to have someone other than the parent who they can talk to as they work through these changes, because a parent is just too emotional. There's too much judgment and oftentimes too much vulnerability.

Vicki Nelson:

Yeah, so I really I think these three P's are a great way to for students to think about what they need to do. I'm a little more curious about the third P, because you've talked about the people and the places and those are sort of active things that you can work on. You know, I'm going to go and talk to this person or I'm going to find my place. Talk a little bit about this. The third P of patience and how you hurry up and wait. Right, how do they do?

Harlan Cohen:

that. Yeah, nikki, you have seen this over the years. You've seen children go through this, family members go through this, and I think the patience piece is the hardest part. Right, would you agree with that? Definitely, because the patience piece. As a parent, we have to watch our kids sit in it. You know we have to watch them get upset. We have to watch them hopefully recover. You know we've got to watch them advocate in the wrong ways and then advocate in the right ways. It's so hard.

Harlan Cohen:

So I have this again systems and ways of framing the unknown that, no matter what, everything's going to be okay, like I truly am a believer and this is the story that I tell my family.

Harlan Cohen:

And the other day I think I was a little more doom and gloom and my and my, my kids called me out on it. My wife called me out. But this idea that everything is going to be okay, it's going to be okay, and if we know it's going to be okay, as parents truly know it's going to be okay my kid fails. What's going to happen? Well, they're going to figure out how to not fail or they're going to find a different path that's going to align with who they are and their interests, because I know they're exceptional and they're going to live an amazing life and if they struggle, they're going to. They're going to have people who can help them. I'll help them to find other people so they could figure it out, so they can end up taking a step in the direction that's going to help them to find their light. It will be okay.

Elizabeth Hamblet:

You know, I think, what's hard and you you know Vicki you as a professor and Harlan is somebody who's been interacting with college students all over all these years that patience thing. It used to be that if you had a bad interaction with a professor or you got kicked out, you know you went to a party and you didn't have a good time, like you'd have to wait till the next day or later to call your parents Right, the next day or later to call your parents Right. So it forced patience on students and maybe forced a little bit more emotional resilience at that time because you just couldn't get to them.

Elizabeth Hamblet:

I mean, I called home on Sundays because this long distance from the phone booth down the hall I had a phone in our room when I was in school, but you did try to save your parents money, so I mean both of you, I guess. Do you think that that cell phone and that immediate you know connection is also something that's really getting in the way of that patience? Because, as Harlan said, it is very hard to know your kid is struggling and parents only want the best for their kids and that temptation to just respond and fix and do things is one that's hard. Um, you know, um, so you know anything, harlan? You, you think about that and you notice changes over the years that you've been doing this.

Harlan Cohen:

Yeah, well, you brought that up, because I think sometimes I'm if I'm listening to me, cause I'm always thinking of of the listener I have these, this idea of it's going to be okay. Like how does that really help me though? Like how does that help me right now when my kid is crying or there's a crisis and there are other answers to it. So, foundationally, it's going to be okay. But then you have to assess in a situation, is it an emergency? Is this an emergency or is this uncomfortable? And for your student it might be an emergency because they're dealing with something on top of something else and they just don't have the emotional tolerance to deal with anything more, but it's probably just something uncomfortable. And that's where the 24-hour rule and a student and a parent can talk about this and say, hey, let. That's where the 24-hour rule and a student and a parent can talk about this and say, hey, let's live by the 24-hour rule. When there's something very big that happens, because information moves so quickly, let's just have a rule that when it's really big and it's not an emergency, we'll give it 24 hours, right. So we set the expectations and then, when something big happens, whether it's a grade or a social situation that's upsetting. Okay, let's just see how it feels tomorrow, if we can. So building that in, because we haven't had to build that in in the past because there was this natural cycle, but technology has really disrupted that. And then, after that 24 hours, asking the question what do you think you should do, which I think is a huge question, as opposed to here's what we're going to do next. Right, and even if we know there's something so powerful about asking, because kids don't want to do the things that we tell them to do, you know, and if they're doing the thing that we ask them to do, like you know, if you could tell my son, harrison, you know, please put the dishes away. And he's like I'm already doing it, it's ruined. Putting the dishes away for him, you know, it's like once they're already doing it, it doesn't, it doesn't feel as good. So, asking them what do you think you should do? And then, if they're uncomfortable, allowing it. You know, hey, this is uncomfortable, this is normal. This is a hard thing. You're in a new place, surrounded by new people and you don't know a lot of, oh, you don't have a lot of friends. It could be this way. Normal is the getting comfortable with the uncomfortable.

Harlan Cohen:

Then it's the people, places and I know that people and places sounds very matter of fact, but there's some nuance to this. It's who are the people who are paid to help, who are the people we can ask to help and who are the people who volunteer to help. Sometimes there could be overlap, but I find that if we can think of in those terms, it becomes pretty easy. And then places places are where we sweat, play, pray, live, learn, lead, love and work Sweat, play, pray, live, learn, lead, love and work. And for every problem there's a place. I've said this before, it's not my first time. I'm going to make a rap. Whenever there's, for every problem there's a place where you can find an answer. So, as a parent, if we can have a handle on who are the people who are in my student's corner, where are the places where they can find support and help?

Harlan Cohen:

And then the patient's piece and understanding that at least the first year is a mess. You know, the first semester, the first quarter ever, it's, it's a throwaway. You know it's, it's, it's, it's garbage. And you can't, you can't assess anything based on the first semester and simply that removes so much pressure. You know students love hearing that. It's like you know this first semester doesn't matter, this is just getting your feet on the ground. So then, if a parent can understand this and know it's going to be okay, then you see, it becomes easier to have this playbook and to be patient. And I'll just add one more thing. Parents do not have their places once their kids graduate, especially if it's the last one. You know where are their places, right, you know.

Harlan Cohen:

And then who are their people? Who they leaned on, because they're not especially parents with children, who are artists or are athletes. You would go to those events and those people at those events became the people in your corner. So for parents, it's really important to think who are my people? My therapist is one of my people. I have a great family but I pay this person because they're there and my therapist is. I'll have a therapist till I stopped breathing. I love my therapist, but who are your people? And then, where are your places? So you can be patient? Because if you don't have people in places, that's when we tend to panic and that's why patience is such an important piece of this. But it's the hardest piece, because then you try to ask a student to be patient when they're in a new place, surrounded by new people, having new experiences, having all the transitions thrown at them at warp speed, but yet they're supposed to be patient. But a parent, I think, understands, can be more patient.

Vicki Nelson:

I really love that you're bringing this around to, or including that parents also need to find their people in their places, that your world is entirely different when students go, and it seems to me that's something that you know.

Vicki Nelson:

If you've had a real conversation with your student about these three Ps, that you can compare notes, that you can check in with each other as that first semester goes along, you know I found a new person, I've got somebody else who are your people, and it gives you some common ground to go through your own transition together at that time. I want to back up a little bit, though, because I have another question, and that is you talk about helping students think about who are their people and what are their places. You know, go to the RA, go to the orientation leader. What about parents who don't really know what to expect? I'm thinking first generation parents who have not gone to college, or parents who went to college 30 years ago, and the people on the college campuses today are in different roles and different. How can parents help students think about those people in places when they don't know what to expect themselves?

Harlan Cohen:

Yeah, it's a I mean, it's a great question. It's really, it's really tricky because a parent who is so removed or hasn't been on campus, how are they, how are they supposed to and how do they feel that sense of confidence? And the answer is to be intentional about exploring the different places and the different people. So, for example, whether it's an orientation program or a new student program, something where the parent is on campus with the student, it's really taking note of who is in that room. Who are these people, who are the people if you have a residential student who are running that residence hall portion, and introducing yourself to those people. When I was on campus for an event for my son, I probably spent about 15 minutes chatting with the assistant director of res life, of housing, because it was really important for me to know who that person is. And then there were, there were some other people who were, who were part of this, and I think it's it's it's really healthy for parents to take note of who those individuals are, because those are the, those are the people you're going to be directing your student to.

Harlan Cohen:

When it comes to first generation families, what resources are available for the student and what resources are available. For me as a parent you might not know. So a great place to start is through the parent group on social media. And there are some schools that do a better job than others and I know Elizabeth, you know, looking with kind of a scared look For example, purdue University, they have someone from the administration who, before students start, they run that group and it's a wonderful group and then they step out after school starts because they don't want to be involved with all of the different drama and issues that pop up. But which parent group is a group where that can be trusted and you can ask other parents? It's great to talk to a family member or a parent of an alumni from high school. So for parents, just, vicki, the idea of where are my places within this community where my student's going to be a participant, and then how can I direct my students so that when an issue comes up I can help identify. You know, for first-gen students, I do a lot with college access and I've got some some students who are part of some college access programs, who are part of my best first year coaching and success program, and for them it's okay.

Harlan Cohen:

At some schools there is an office for first-generation students. So reach out to that office. If you had an IEP or 504, I know, elizabeth, we talked about this make sure you have a place where you can talk to the people there who can direct you, because they're experts when it comes to resources on campus and how to take advantage of the academic channels and all the other resources that could be there. Then there's then the multicultural groups are fantastic, because a lot of times you get a lot of first gen students. Especially in schools where maybe there isn't as much diversity, the multicultural groups tend to be a great place to find connection. And then there's also the advisor of the first gen. There's advisor of the multicultural groups. And then there's the spiritual groups and organizations. So, for those who don't know, it's going to the campus website, it's going to social media, it's I do these programs.

Harlan Cohen:

I have a program called 17 things you need to do before college, which is not behind a paywall when I present this live. I'm doing another program called 15 mistakes parents of first year college students make and how to avoid them. The reason that I'm doing all of this is because it's so hard to know. Reason that I'm doing all of this is because it's so hard to know. It is so hard to know and you need to know. And now, because parents are often first responders and they don't always know how to respond or the best resource to direct their student to, they become panicked. So you know I'm in your corner, in addition to those other resources. Did that answer the question?

Vicki Nelson:

Yeah, I think you know doing your research and not being afraid to ask lots of questions and doing things like reading your books, looking at the College Parents Central website, which has 900 articles and glossaries. Know, just simply learning the terminology. You know, can you talk the talk so that when your student comes home and says this and that and uses all those acronyms and all of that, you have some idea of what's going on.

Harlan Cohen:

So yeah, I think a parent could also call the dean of students office.

Harlan Cohen:

You know it's okay to call and when a parent does call, it's really important to call, not asking them to solve a problem, but asking them who are the people my students should talk to and where are the places they should go to find that support. Because when you approach those people who are the clearinghouse of information, people who are accessible, even the orientation office, you can call them, because any number you have you could say hey, I have a question and I just want to know who to direct my student to or who can I talk to so I can find the best resource. People tend to be pretty nice. They're not really great when parents threaten lawsuits and are angry. You know that ends the dialogue. But a parent who asks how can I connect my student so that they can get the answers they need, those campus officials are really wonderful to respond. There's also the question of FERPA, which some professionals will say you know I can't give you information about your student because of FERPA, the Federal Education Rights.

Elizabeth Hamblet:

Privacy Act Family Educational Rights. Privacy Act.

Harlan Cohen:

Family, education Rights, privacy Act. Another acronym yeah, that's another wonderful one More alphabet soup. And that could be a common answer. But when you approach this from a place of wanting resources to share that with your student, people tend to not talk about FERPA, and with FERPA and HIPAA you can get waivers as well, and I'll be offering some of that soon through a partnership.

Vicki Nelson:

But yeah, and often the college, because of FERPA, can't tell you how's my student doing, is he going to class? They can't share that, but they can listen. Going to class they can't share that, but they can listen. And so sometimes if parents are concerned about something and they call and they can describe what their concerns are. They're not going to get an answer, but it means that the person at the college can go and check in with that student. Or also, sometimes, even if they won't give you an answer, they can hear your concerns and then take it from there. And so parents you know it's good to call and ask these questions and parents want to help advocate for students. You know, let me call the dean and ask who my student should talk to, and then I'll call my student and tell my student you should go and talk to this person. And there are times, I think, when that's really you know what you need to do.

Vicki Nelson:

But we used to think of, we used to talk a lot about the helicopter parents, right, they're swooping in all the time and now they're snow plowing and getting stuff out of the way and doing all of that, and the image was always that the students were pushing that away. But I've seen, you know. One of the changes I've seen is the switch where students are very happy to rely on the parents not always to answer their question, but I don't know who to talk to. Will you call the dean and find out who I should talk to, rather than me going to the dean's office and saying any? You know you mentioned, parents are first responders. How do we get students not to turn to parents always as their first resource?

Harlan Cohen:

Yeah, I think that's a. It's a difficult question, and I think it's a it's a long answer with a long tail. Yeah, I think that's a. It's a difficult question, and, and, and I think it's a it's a long answer with a long tail.

Announcer:

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Harlan Cohen:

It's something I think first of all, it takes a parent who doesn't want to be that person, because I think most parents are excited to still play a role. My kids at college. They want me to do something. Wow, I have a purpose. You know, it's like it's a wonderful thing for me. It's like, you know, my brain lights up. My kid wants something from me when, when he's dealing with college, I like affirmation, I like being helpful. So there's this part of okay, what is truly being helpful.

Harlan Cohen:

And maybe, as a rule for the parent of, I'm going to give my kid the first, the first chance to uh, answer for themselves. So let's give it 24 hours. And why don't you? Why don't you find someone that you can talk to? And if you can't find someone, then why don't you talk to your RA if you're living in a residential situation, right? So I'm going to give you this. Then, after 24 hours, well, you know how's it going. Is this still a problem? If you can't advocate for yourself, then either you're going to accept what it is and that's just going to be how things are, or you can try again, or you can find someone to help you. This is where a therapist or another professional on campus can be the one to help. So if your child can't get the help, if your child can't advocate, are they able to do it or can they not do it? And if they can't do it, if they're not capable of doing it, well then that's where an intervention by a parent can be necessary and vital.

Harlan Cohen:

But there's also this part of why don't we first see if you could do it? Then why don't we help you to find someone who can be in your corner to help you to be able to do this, so then you can do it. And if it's an immediate situation where there's a big problem and they need that help, well then why don't I call and you stay on the phone with me, you know? Why don't you listen in to see how I'm saying this and who I'm calling and what I'm doing? So at least we're doing this as a partnership. So the next time this happens, the understanding is you can know how the Dean of Students office works.

Harlan Cohen:

So and this is you know, this is a big issue, vicki and Elizabeth, where professors have this issue and students have this issue and it's do I meet my student where they are Is that.

Harlan Cohen:

Is that empowering them, is it enabling them, or is it actually connecting with them and then helping them to understand what they need to do so that they can do it next time. And this has been the biggest difference I've seen over the past 25 years is when we parent or teach from a place of meet me where I am or I will not meet you where you are. You know it's my way, or the highway, and tough love and difficult consequences. I've seen students really falter when that's the approach, because the majority of the students I've interacted if someone says, meet me where I am, they're just going to flounder and they're going to stay where they are. But an adult who can give them permission to be uncomfortable, who can try to understand what they really want, then help them and walk alongside to get them somewhere, those are the leaders, those are the teachers, those are the parents that I find to be the most effective.

Vicki Nelson:

Yeah, so I mean we could keep talking and talking and asking questions and getting all of these wonderful answers, but would you talk a little bit about your best first year program?

Harlan Cohen:

for this because I've been doing this for over 25 years and I have a really strong idea of the questions that students need to ask before they ask them and most of the time they're asking them when there's a problem. And I know the obstacles that students and parents face before they face them, because every year this is an evergreen type of cycle and I'm sure we all could talk and we know, like we know, what they're going to deal with. So I've been doing this for so many years and every year students struggled with the same challenges and parents struggle High schools they can't really do enough because it's not what their job is and they're not equipped to help students with this transition. And colleges they're so focused on getting students through this process and maybe there's a first year program there isn't a resource, so there's this big problem that's getting bigger and bigger and there isn't a solution. So I wanted to create a solution. So this has been really about six years in the making because I've had different iterations of best first year, but this year is the most effective and I'm so excited because it's a coaching program. I've committed to be there every week in the fall, every other week in the spring and summer and basically I'm there to check in, to help you, to know what you should be thinking about, to guide you to the people and places, to answer your questions live and in the moment, to provide some community, and to do it every week. It starts in the summer because there's a lot that needs to be done.

Harlan Cohen:

The best first year in college really starts in the summer and I'm hopeful and I'm upbeat and it's for students and it's for parents, and not everyone should attend live every week because it's too much, but what I'm doing is providing a resource that's there when you need it and answers that I know work connecting people to the resources that are going to have an impact. So I'm so excited about this and and you know my my function is, I want to be in parents' corners and I want to be in students' corners and I want to help them to prepare this change. I want them to plan and I want them to turn to me and each other as they start to deal with the things we know they're going to encounter and to do it in a really low stress, helpful, positive way. So that's what best first year is. So it's coaching and then I have access to a video success library, and I've created these videos over the years. And then I've got some workbook exercises that I've crafted as well, and those things are available for people to tap into whenever they want.

Harlan Cohen:

But, most importantly, every week I get to say how are you? What's going on? Let's fix whatever is making us uncomfortable, and find answers and, uh, know that this, this is normal, this is good You're you're you're living it. Something's going normal, this is good, you're living it. If something's going wrong, something's happening, and if something's going right, that's great too. We can celebrate those things too. So that's what Best First Year is, and the goal is to do this at scale.

Harlan Cohen:

Eventually, I would love for this to be the go-to transition course or program that is just when you go to college, you go through this. This is going to help you, because I've seen it. It helps. I'm pouring my heart and soul into this, spending an exorbitant amount of time and energy, because, more than anything, I just want to help. I just want to help. I'll just add one more thing. I've been doing this for so long and in the past two, three years, my social media has just exploded in the best way. It's just grown, you know, to have over a million followers on Instagram and on TikTok combined. So there's all these people who really like my advice. So now I get to give them something that's a little longer form, it's a little more thought through, and the students who parents send their messages to they also are. They could become members, because a membership includes access for two people.

Vicki Nelson:

So that's best first year, and so you have parents and students together.

Harlan Cohen:

Yes, and the way that I present it is in a webinar format, so it's not in a meeting format, and I do that intentionally because some people don't want to be known. And what's cool is you could have a student who's at school and you could have a parent who's in a different place, and that student can ask a question about the parent and the parent wouldn't even know because nobody knows. So there's this anonymity for a lot of parents, there's a ton of discomfort and shame, this idea that your child's going through something. And I remove a lot of that because, instead of blaming yourself or looking for someone or something to blame, blame transition, blame the universal rejection, truth of going through change. Um, so the format of it makes it so people can share and be supported.

Harlan Cohen:

And, uh, for the parent who has the kid, who doesn't want to get help, what's great is they don't need to get it and they don't need to go. I had a parent who said what do I get my kid to go, cause I've been enjoying this? And the answer is don't need to get it and they don't need to go. I had a parent who said what do I get my kid to go, cause I've been enjoying this and the answer is don't uh. When there's a problem, you could say, hey, harlan did a, harlan did a coaching session on that. Why don't you check it out? Because that's when they're going to want the information and know that they need the information about prevention and being uh and being able to give them a resource when they need it, when we don't always have the words or answers.

Elizabeth Hamblet:

So you were. You know your social media has, as you said, been exploding and that's really good because it's it's accessible. Students can watch it privately. But I really think your books are so important because it is, you know. Think your books are so important because it is, you know, the preparation for this change. I think you really lay out all the things that people need to be thinking about, and so for students who found you on socials, you know how can parents convince them, and parents, there's a book for you too. I mean, you should read the Naked Roommate, the one intended for students, but you should also read the one that's just for you. But how do we get students to read this book when they say, well, I can just watch Harlan on socials?

Harlan Cohen:

Yeah, that hasn't really been a big issue because the title of the book is so fun it's the Naked Roommate at 170.

Elizabeth Hamblet:

The cover's great.

Harlan Cohen:

if you haven't seen it no-transcript, which I'm actually doing a new parent book, which I'm really excited. It's going to be like a whole new parent book because that book is outdated but it's still a great book.

Elizabeth Hamblet:

It is a great book. People love it.

Harlan Cohen:

Absolutely. Yeah, Some of it. You know. The fundamentals of the book are fantastic. Just some of the stuff is a little bit dated, but the bones are great. And then there's a book called Win or Learn the Naked Truth About Turning Every Rejection Into your Ultimate Success, and that book is all about risk-taking. It's like a hundred pages, there are pictures and for anyone who picks up one of my books, if you aren't a great reader, the books are designed for you, and if you are a great reader, they're designed for you because my my whole ADHD I've I have a hard time writing in long form. So the way that it's put together, students who don't typically read we'll pick this up and they'll read a few tips at a time and they'll be like, wow, then they'll read another few tips. So giving them access, not promoting it too heavily, Um, and having, uh, someone else, a family member, give it as a gift is a great thing to do too, Cause then it's not coming from you, because no one wants to read anything coming from you.

Elizabeth Hamblet:

Oh, our friend Jill Grimes, the uh, the TikTok college docs is that parents put a $10 bill in parts of her book that they want their kids to read. So there's another.

Harlan Cohen:

Yeah, that's great. I'm going to ask Jill to give me some money. Jill gives the tens.

Vicki Nelson:

Well, lots ahead for people to catch up. If people want to learn more about your coaching program or your books or get in contact, how can they find you?

Harlan Cohen:

Well, you can find me on social media. On Instagram it's at Harlan Cohn H-A-R-L-A-N-C-O-H-E-N, and I have a link to link in my bio there. That has a link to all of my stuff on TikTok. I'm help me, harlan. I'm doing a lot on YouTube now as well. There's a podcast, a Harlan Cohn podcast, and I'm going to be doing another season of that and I talked to wonderful experts so they can find that and my website, harlancohncom.

Harlan Cohen:

So those are all places and reach out to me for parents who have questions. If I don't get back to you fast enough, just keep writing to me. I get a lot of messages and I also do one-on-one coaching, coaching, and then I have the group coaching program. So I am excited. I'm grateful to be here. I know that we're all in this together. We want to fix this problem. You know, and I get I get even uncomfortable talking about me because I'm not the most important person in this room, in this conversation. It's the parents, it's the families and as, as I used to like a lot of attention, and as I've gotten more and more attention, I care less and less about me. I really don't. It's not the most important thing. I want you parents to have a wonderful experience and I want your students to have the best possible experience. And it's hard, it's very hard, and we need community and we need to be there for each other.

Vicki Nelson:

And that is the perfect note on which to end the conversation. Harlan Cohen, thank you so much for joining us, for Facebook Live and for the College Parent Central podcast, and I suspect you're going to get a little influx of interest hopefully just from this conversation of hearing the ideas that you've shared. So thank you so much and thanks, elizabeth, for co-hosting with me and we'll see you next time. Thank you.